sk187 April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 Hey Everyone!I have been doing FW for a long time. I raise shrimp (Crystal Red Shrimp and Red Cherry Shrimp) and I have been contemplating going into SW. I picked up a 40 gallon breeder at Petco for there $1 a gallon sale and about 25 lbs of live rock. I think I need to buy some additional equipment but I also don't want to spend a fortune. Here is where I am stuck. Light I am considering buying this one: Current USA Orbit Marine Aquarium LED Light, 48 to 60-Inch http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GFTSV24/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER Eventually I want to do a reef tank. Atm, I just want to get some clownfish and anemones. Protein Skimmer Clueless one which I should get Filter: I run HOB and canisters for my FW but I am reading alot about sumps and I am wondering how the heck I should install one on this 40B. Should I drill a hole? If so where, with what equipment I get from where, what diameter etc. If not, should I just get a HOB overflow box and make my life easer? For the sump, what pumps do i need? A return pump prob for the water to go back. How should I design/buy equipment so it doesn't overflow? Thanks for your wisdom and help! I really appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruleyii April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 I am still young in the hobby myself (about a year) but have learned a ton from this site and its members. I currently have a 37 and dont have a sump. In my opinion it's not necessary. If you have a good amount of live rock and protein skimmer you should be fine with just doing a 10% water change once a week. There are tons of good articles, treads and links in this beginner section of the forum. I woudnt run a hob filter unless you remove the sponge. They can be nitrate factories. I have one running but its just so I can dose carbon. I have seen people turn a hob filter into a refugium though and always thought about doing that myself. Keep in mind this is all just my opinion based on what I've read and experienced so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 You've got a lot of questions, and that's great, I'm glad you're doing your homework before you start. A 40 gallon breeder is a great starting size tank. You need to figure out what you want to do first. If you want Anemones, you're going to want some great light, and you should wait a few months before you add those anyways. You're going to want to let your tank cycle for as long as possible as well. There's a saying in the saltwater community that "nothing good happens fast." If you can apply this rule and have some patience, it will get you far! I don't know much about that light, but you can run some of the smaller Evergrow series for the same, if not cheaper price, and I know they will work for anemones. If you're not keeping coral and just lighting for fish, then you don't need to worry as much! The skimmer will depend if you want to have a sump or not. A sump is just a fancy way of hiding all your equipment, adding water volume, and surface skimming to your tank. If you want to go this route, make sure the glass isn't tempered. The 40B's from the dollar per gallon sale are not, so you should be OK. You'll need a glass drill bit for whatever size bulkhead you're going to drill for. When you drill, you want to keep the glass wet and the drill bit cool, go slow, and let the drill do the work. There are a variety of ways to install overflows, and we've had tank of the month winners who run upside down 90 degree elbows with gutter guard tucked in em'! If you don't add a sump, you can always use a HOB (Hang on Back) skimmer, I am less experienced in those, but I'm sure somebody will chime in. I would not run a HOB, your live rock will be your filter in your saltwater tank, that is why it's important to let the tank cycle, so it can build up the beneficial bacteria to handle your bio load. Your protien skimmer will help keep your tank clean by removing the organics before they start to decompose. A return pump can be really simple, a mag 6 would probably do you fine, but the possibilities are endless here. You'll want to read up on your flow rate, and the rate of return vs. the rate of draining. Keep asking questions, do A LOT of research! Oh, and welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 It really depends upon what sort of tank you want to run. If you want to do a salt water tank with fish only - just to get your feet wet (so to speak) - you can probably run with canister filters or a HOB, and get by with water changes. Fish can tolerate a lot more nitrate than corals can. Just keep your filters clean of accumulating debris. A sump is handy when you want to hide equipment and do some extra water processing. In your case, things like heaters, an auto top-off system, etc. can be housed in a sump. As for how you set a sump up - it's really pretty logical. I know that you're thinking that you have to match the return to the drain to keep things from overflowing. That's a pretty common misconception. Instead, what's really happening is that your pumping water up to the main tank from the sump, and the main (display) tank is set up with an overflow that fixes it so that the water level in that tank stays constant. Thus, any additional water that flows into the tank from the sump is automatically drained by the drain. As long as the drain capacity exceeds the return pump capacity, things work to keep the display tank's water level constant. Here's an animation that helps to explain how a sump works: Now, evaporation will take fresh water out of the system. The lowered water level will show up in the sump. To replace the fresh water that's lost, you top off the system until the water level in the sump is restored to your target level. This is easiest to do with an ATO, or auto topoff system. Finally, one note of caution. In a system with a sump, you need to think about and design the system so that, when the power goes out, the water level in the sump doesn't overflow the sump and onto your floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk187 April 3, 2015 Author Share April 3, 2015 Thanks everyone! This is all really helpful. I know I could drill the tank but I am concerned. I am in downtown DC and I don't really have alot of space to drill a tank. I guess I could just drill it in my bathtub. Would a HOB overflow box be easier? Atm I am thinking of doing a FOWRL setup to let the tank cycle and stabilize. I will want to eventually put in some coral and anemones just not yet due to cost but also the tank being pretty new and all. All of my live rock is already cured so I have it in the 40B with water over them. For the sump, I am thinking of getting a 20L as the 20 H is not on sale (:D). Where would you recommend I get a drill bit and a template (I assume I am need) to drill the holes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRhino35 April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 I just broke down my 40B so I have been through your thought process. 1st run a sump! Its the best way to keep things simple and clean. 2, a 20 gallon tank worked great. Build your own chambers to make sure you can do what you want with your tank. 3, EVERGROW lights are great. Talk to richard from ERC about it, I ran the 32" model for reference. 4, a hang on over flow is ok, some dont like them. I had one from CPR with a aqua lifter pump and it worked great. And lastly if your going to build a stand build it bigger than you need. The extra room is great!!! Just my 2 cents though, and dint forget to do a build thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w April 4, 2015 Share April 4, 2015 If you're going to do clownfish and anemones, please do not buy a carpet anemone, they are unsustainable. In the wild they live 150 years, in captivity an expert can get them to live 3 or 4 years. Clownfish will be just fine with no anem at all, and there are certainly many common and cheap anems which are available. The red or green bubble tip anems can easily be propagated by cutting and will work for your clowns if you really want an anemone host. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob A April 4, 2015 Share April 4, 2015 Red bubble tips (rbta) are plentiful in the WAMAS community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk187 April 4, 2015 Author Share April 4, 2015 Yea I am planning on getting some bubble tips for my tank. I am also using this for my 40B, it fits tanks perfectly, easy to put up and I got it with a coupon at Lowes for $65 :D http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10151&catalogId=10051&productId=1000525&cId=detail If I had a car, I would def make more of my own things. As it stands, its really hard to get to a Lowes or Home Depot. I live in Columbia Heights so there are some decent hardware stores near me so I will probably go out and check them out on Sunday.I am currently considering drilling holes for a sump, getting a 20L for the sump, getting like 15-20 pounds of live rock, a return pump for the sump, hole saw (maybe 1 inch diameter?) and then installing a "bean animal" style sump. Thoughts? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallreef April 4, 2015 Share April 4, 2015 P.s. Sunday some may not be open for Easter, lots of the large national chains will be but yeah... Return pump, if you're trying to keep it cheap just go with a mag.... Eheim is good for energy efficient and not as loud as a mag.... Look through the for sale section here... Always pumps listed somewhere... I like alot of live rock.. There's no magic number for lbs to gallons, it depends on how well your husbandry skill are (or will be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime April 4, 2015 Share April 4, 2015 I am currently considering drilling holes for a sump, getting a 20L for the sump, getting like 15-20 pounds of live rock, a return pump for the sump, hole saw (maybe 1 inch diameter?) and then installing a "bean animal" style sump. Thoughts? :D I think that's a great idea, but the sump will not be your bean animal, the overflow style will be. Here is a really good read about it. I ran one on my last setup, and I won't do it any other way, it is completely quiet, and by all accounts, failsafe *knocks on wood.* There are many ways to do it, here is a link to a thread I was looking for an overflow called a "ghost overflow" that was not yet released. There are many alternatives you can buy, and you can see the one I ended up going with have the 3 drains to allow to an immediate install of a bean animal. Here is a link to the overflow box, keep in mind that one will be way to big for a 40B. You can find the same style, just smaller. One of our forum members madweazl just installed it on his build, which you can read about here. You can easily drill in the bathtub, I've done it many times with smaller tanks! Like I mentioned before, take your time, and plan everything first! You can even post up your plans here and get feedback! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk187 April 4, 2015 Author Share April 4, 2015 Hey YHSublime! I really appreciate all of the help! I can't read this right now but it I imagine it saved me alot of time digging through archives in this and other forums. As for the actual overflow box design, I have been hearing how everyone and their mother is recommending a coast to coast design without teeth. Now I could brush up on some fluid dynamics and then some marine biology but I wanted to hear from more experienced keepers if anyone has experience with them/ what they thought about them. This is the "original" design I discovered last night. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1310585 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime April 4, 2015 Share April 4, 2015 Hey YHSublime! I really appreciate all of the help! I can't read this right now but it I imagine it saved me alot of time digging through archives in this and other forums. As for the actual overflow box design, I have been hearing how everyone and their mother is recommending a coast to coast design without teeth. Now I could brush up on some fluid dynamics and then some marine biology but I wanted to hear from more experienced keepers if anyone has experience with them/ what they thought about them. This is the "original" design I discovered last night. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1310585 No problem, that's essentially a lot of what I linked you to. When you do get a moment, check out the ebay links I provided to some prefabricated ones actually for sale. You won't need a full coast to coast, and you'll have trouble with it, unless you want to build one yourself, or spend some money. Even the prefab ones are pricy, at around $140 shipped. Essentially, the possibilities are endless, this is one of those times where the expression "there's more than one way to skin a cat" pertains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk187 April 4, 2015 Author Share April 4, 2015 Also guys, I have access to so pretty crazy fab machines that I am considering learning to use and make stuff for this hobby as it seems that pre-fab options are REALLY pricey and hard to find what you want. If there is interest, I can get trained to use the machines and make pretty much whatever you want :D I have access to CNC machines, Laser Cutters, 3D printers, industrial sewing machines, welding (although I am not confident I can do this haha), steel cutting water jets and full wood work shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime April 4, 2015 Share April 4, 2015 Awesome, Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk187 April 5, 2015 Author Share April 5, 2015 Hey YHSublime, What is the point of the john guest tubing on the open channel pipe? Also, I am thinking I should prob go 1'' for a 40B and 3/4 if not 1/2 for the return. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK3 April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 The tubing on the open channel pipe is to reduce noise as the tubing allows air to escape the pipe. Although, if you have it set the siphon just right, there should only be a slight trickle down the open channel and noise should be at a minimum anyways. If I were setting up a bean animal on a 40 breeder, I would go 3/4" siphon drain, 1" open channel drain, 1" emergency drain, and 3/4" return (but 1" pvc on the return but reduced to 3/4" at the output). Having larger diameter piping on the return greatly reduces the amount of friction loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy April 5, 2015 Share April 5, 2015 What is the point of the john guest tubing on the open channel pipe?it prevents the open channel from becoming a full siphon until needed, as designed, if/when the full siphon becomes clogged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk187 April 5, 2015 Author Share April 5, 2015 Thanks everyone for your responses, its super helpful and I REALLY appreciate it. I ordered the hole saws so they should be coming soon. I am thinking of just going to my local hardware store and have them cut acrylic so I can make a L shaped coast to coast skimmer. Any suggestions on protein skimmers and powerheads? For the moment, I am doing just FOWLR but I eventually want coral hard and soft. Thanks ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sk187 April 6, 2015 Author Share April 6, 2015 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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