rich_one April 1, 2015 Share April 1, 2015 Are wet/dry fitlers for FOWLR tanks bad? What if I add something like a HOB fuge? I know a sump system with fuge in it is an option, but I am wondering if a wet/dry, with filter pad above the bio balls, and a separate hob fuge would be a bad thing? Thanks! -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braden April 1, 2015 Share April 1, 2015 If you have a reasonable amount of live rock, good water circulation, and a reasonable amount of light, the (biological) filtration capacity added by a wet/dry filter is negligible. A good protein skimmer and a refugium will be much more effective components of your filtration scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_one April 1, 2015 Author Share April 1, 2015 But would it hurt? One aspect I like is that the water trickling through the pad onto the bio balls would be pretty quiet. So would it hurt if I did it that way? And if not, can I put the protein skimmer in the same chamber as the return pump? Thanks! -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob A April 1, 2015 Share April 1, 2015 It's my understanding that wet/dry (bio-ball or trickle) filters tend to generate more nitrates than other types of systems which is why they have fallen out of favor. Additionally, if you have filter floss or some sort of filter pad you need to change it often enough to prevent that from also contributing to nitrates. Having said that, people used to keep salt water fish with wet/dry filters so it can be done. Just watch the nitrates. It will make it harder if you decide later that you want to start adding corals as you will most likely have to change out the wet/dry filter with a sump or refugium. Putting a skimmer in the pump chamber means that the bubbles from the skimmer will get pumped up to the display-unless you have the output from the skimmer going somewhere else to allow the bubbles to dissipate. The water level in the pump chamber is subject to fluctuating levels, even with an auto top off, so that can affect skimmer performance. Depending on the style of wet/dry there might not be enough water depth in the pump chamber for the skimmer to function properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_one April 1, 2015 Author Share April 1, 2015 Ah... got it. hmm.... thanks. Didn't realize how tough a decision this was going to be. LOL... thanks for the info! -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braden April 1, 2015 Share April 1, 2015 A trickle filter can generate nitrates if it clogs with detritus. If it doesn't clog with detritus easily, it probably doesn't have that much surface area for nitrifying bacteria to colonize. At the very least, there are better things that you could be doing with that space in your sump. Your skimmer can go anywhere in the sump that it will fit. If you are worried about noise, I have my drain pipe submerged in my sump. It's pretty quiet aside from the occasional large bubble. Some people use filter socks over the drain pipe (which will also reduce noise); but you must change/clean them frequently. They aren't at all plankton-friendly (which is why I don't use them); but that probably doesn't matter in your fish-only tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_one April 1, 2015 Author Share April 1, 2015 Okay, guys... thanks. Can I get away with running a tank with only jets moving the water through and around the rocks inside the tank and a good HOB protein skimmer like a Aquamaxx ConeS for a month or two and a light fish load? It's a 125 gallon tank with about 200 lbs. of live rock (if not more) and again, a very light fish load. I want to take a little more time to consider how I am going to approach my sump situation, but want more than just the jets pushing water around in the meantime. Thanks. -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind April 1, 2015 Share April 1, 2015 For a FOWLR, I don't see where the HOB bio-balls would hurt. The prefilters will prevent the clogging but if it clogs or not the surface area will colonize with nitrifying bacteria which will process the ammonia and nitrite into nitrates. Some people think that the clogging creates nitrate issues but that is not true. Because of the high O2 exchange around the normal bio-ball system it prevents denitrifying bacteria, which like low O2 environments, from colonizing. So the normal bio-balls setup is no help in removing nitrates, that's where water changes come in. If you need a system that quickly removes large ammonia and nitrites then nothing really works better than bio-balls. Systems that benefit from bio-balls are fish only systems with messy eaters or fish with large waste. However, in the average coral tank the bio-balls are not needed if ample live rock is available. The purpose of the skimmer is to remove as much waste as possible before it can break down to something that bacteria can remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braden April 1, 2015 Share April 1, 2015 Yes, you could certainly run a light-to-moderate bioload with good circulation within the tank and a hang-on skimmer. There's nothing especially magical about a sump. It increases your water volume a bit, gives you more options for skimmers, and usually makes ATO a little easier; but beyond that, it's mostly a convenient place to hide stuff. Having a sump does usually come with surface skimming. That's important; but there are other ways to get it. Some HOB skimmers have intakes that do surface water extraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k April 2, 2015 Share April 2, 2015 FWIW, I use several wet/dry bioball filters in conjuntion with a skimmer in the pump chamber with zer micro bubbles getting into the tank. You just have to plumb it correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k April 2, 2015 Share April 2, 2015 way back in the day ('88) , when w/d filters were introduced, they came with a protein skimmer to offer complete filtration. they were pricey too. a cheaper price point for the w/d was sans skimmer. w/d efficient at producing nitrate, skimmer efficient at removing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_one April 2, 2015 Author Share April 2, 2015 Whoa... okay, so here's the deal. Let's say I go wet/dry, Aquamaxx ConeS hang on skimmer, and large hang on refugium... that'd about cover it, no? Not including all of the various reactors and such, right? I could add these things over the next two months... if that would all work, which should I add first? Wet/dry? Hang on refugium? Skimmer? Assuming I cannot add all 3 at once. FYI... I eventually want the hang on refugium for pod propogation, if nothing else. Thanks! -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime April 2, 2015 Share April 2, 2015 I don't have any experience with the wet/dry, so I can not speak to it, however, I've got to wonder why you want to go this route vs. a sump with a spot for a fuge and a skimmer and return pump, heater, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_one April 2, 2015 Author Share April 2, 2015 Man, its kind of a long story, and probably the most embarrassing part of it is my fear of trying to do much of anything diy from a plumbing standpoint. Basically, I'd really like to buy an out-of-the box system with all of the hoses and connections I need, connect everything together, and turn it on... plug and play. I'm not very handy, so to speak, so doing things like designing and building my own custom sump and plumbing is for, a bit over my head. So that leaves me with nice box systems like, for instance, Eshopps series of sumps and filters. As it is, I have a brand new, dual output eshopps hang on overflow. Looking at the eshopps systems, the ones that seem to fit the best with my tank size are the WD-150CS... a wet/dry filter with 2 chambers that is 24" long, or the one I'd really like to have, the R-200... a refugium with 3 chambers that is 30" long. Problem is, tank is setup and running, and I'm not tearing it down to install a refugium. However, the R-200 is to long to fit into the stand. I can remove the front beam of the stand to fit it in, but I fear doing that due to the weight of the tank. Meanwhile, the WD-150CS is 24" long, instead of 30"... and I can fit that nice and neat, right through the door. Whichever one I choose... I want it to match my dual output overflow box. So as you can see... this is part "newbie inexperience", part "I suck at diy, and am afraid to do it with plumbing because I don't want to flood my basement" and part "I really like the eshopps products, that come with almost everything in the box I need, and simple to understand connections". Currently, I only have power jets circulating water through and around about 200 lbs. or so (maybe a bit more) of live rock in the tank. I want to add something else... be it sump/refugium, wet/dry, skimmer, or some combination of the three. This is basically what I am trying to figure out. What's easiest and best for me, that will still give me a nice system long term. I'm sure this probably seems crazy. But here I am. Two systems that match my dual output overflow, but one too long to get into the stand without having to remove part of the stand, and the other that does fit, only having 2 chambers instead of 3, prompting me to consider using an HOB skimmer instead of an in sump unit. That's my long embarrassing story. LOL... -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 There are a lot of opinions on wet/dry systems. My dad has had on on his FOWLR for over 10 years on a 65g I bought him. Not a single crash and no protein skimmer. I have moved on to 'better' systems but he has stuck with the wet/dry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_one April 3, 2015 Author Share April 3, 2015 Really appreciate that, Reefer_Madness. For better or for worse, going with the wet/dry... tonight. Will add an Aquamaxx ConeS HOB skimmer and a 24" HOB fuge over the next month or two. I hope this comes together, because it's my plan for now... appreciate the input! -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wangspeed April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 I would be concerned about that hang on back overflow. If something goes wrong with the siphon, very bad things could happen. -- Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubaguy April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 I still have my wet / dry sump in my shed from the early 90s... and i found a brand new pump that i will use for my mixing station. Wett Dry filters with a protein skimmer and lots of live rock was the original way i was taught.. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_one April 3, 2015 Author Share April 3, 2015 Thanks! I've ordered the eshopps wet/dry and decided to go that way. I think I'm going to use marine pure instead of plastic bio balls. In a month or so, I'll be adding a large HOB fuge. Fingers crossed... appreciate all the great insight! -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 It's not an embarrassing story, sorry for the late reply. You're going with what you know, and there is nothing wrong with that. That being said, everything seems daunting in this hobby until you actually do it. Just like drilling a tank, once you do it, you'll wonder why you worried so much about it. Once you find something that works, I don't see any reason to change it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reefer_Madness April 3, 2015 Share April 3, 2015 I still have my wet / dry sump in my shed from the early 90s... and i found a brand new pump that i will use for my mixing station. Wett Dry filters with a protein skimmer and lots of live rock was the original way i was taught.. Good luck! That's how I learned too. It works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich_one April 4, 2015 Author Share April 4, 2015 Thanks, guys! -Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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