Here we go! Chuck's new build

[flooddc]

Finished plumbing today. Not clean looking, but good enough for me.

[DuffyGeos]

looks like you made a lot of progress, great job!

[flooddc]

looks like you made a lot of progress, great job!

Thanks!

[flooddc]

Freshwatet test today!

[flooddc]

Freshwater run test video. The 4 return pipes created quite a bit of bubble and occasionally created burbing air which causes water to splashed out of the sump.

I knew some people use valves to control drain flow to reduce this from happening. I personally, do not like to install anything to reduce or otherwise restrict drain pipes.

In the past, I inserted foam filter onto the pipes and slide the foam near the surface of the water to prevent splashing. Any suggestion on an alternative solutions for this problem?

[madweazl]

Trim the drain pipes closer to the surface of the normal water level (no need to be more than an inch below the surface). The deeper they protrude into the water, the longer it takes them to purge air. This also leads to larger bubbles being purged.

Edited March 16, 2015 by madweazl

[flooddc]

Trim the drain pipes closer to the surface of the normal water level (no need to be more than an inch below the surface). The deeper they protrude into the water, the longer it takes them to purge air. This also leads to larger bubbles being purged.

Thanks!

Tried shorten and added elbows. 3 of them calm down a little bit. But one drain will not cooperated. It's the one closest to the sump.

It's actually worsen. Darn it! Play around with it tonight. If not able to calm it down. Will just have to bury it in the LR or build a trapper.

[John Ford]

Can you slow the pump down a little to help with the drains?

 

Everything looks great!

[wangspeed]

You already have 2 drains in each tank. My vote is to convert them to Herbie configs and never hear bubbles again. I don't think I could deal with a standard drain. Herbie or Bean Animal for me. It would be really easy. Let me know if you're interested and I can let you know how to rearrange the overflow pipes. You'd need one gate valve for each tank's siphon drain.

 

 

--

Warren

[flooddc]

Can you slow the pump down a little to help with the drains?

Everything looks great!

Yes, I can reduce the pumps a bit. I wanted to mess the return before I turn the pump down.

[flooddc]

You already have 2 drains in each tank. My vote is to convert them to Herbie configs and never hear bubbles again. I don't think I could deal with a standard drain. Herbie or Bean Animal for me. It would be really easy. Let me know if you're interested and I can let you know how to rearrange the overflow pipes. You'd need one gate valve for each tank's siphon drain.

 

 

--

Warren

Thanks! going Herbie means I am going to have only one drain in the 210G.  This will cut my flow in half. Alternatively, If I am going to do Herbie, I would need to use the 2 returns in 210G as emergency pipes and add 2 overthetop returns. I rather not go with this route. Thanks for the advice.    

[DuffyGeos]

Paging Rob (Zygote2K)........

[AlanM]

It doesn't cut your flow in half to have a herbie drain system.  If you're running one drain as a full siphon you get WAY more flow through it than if it is carrying air as well. 

 

However, a herbie drain system does like a fairly straight path down into the sump to flush out all the air, and I can't really tell if your drain pipes go right down or are the horizontal ones in the picture.

 

All it would take to convert your cube into a herbie would be a gate valve at the bottom of one of the two drains in the box and turn the elbow in the other drain facing up rather than down.  The dual overflow boxes in the other one are a bit more of an issue as you'd only want to use one of them as a drain.  You could remove one of those overflow boxes completely or send returns through the drain holes to the inside or something like that. 

[DuffyGeos]

Here is how Rob did mine. It is hard to see but the drain on the left had a strainer on it, so it is running full siphon all the time, the right side pulls water and you can adjust the sound and volume by putting a cap on the right pipe and then play with it even more by drilling different size holes in the cap on the right.

 

[flooddc]

Thanks guys!

So, if I replacr one durso (one closet to sump) with a short stand pipe and add valve to it, I should achieved a Herbie style overflow?

[madweazl]

Each overflow has one 3/4" return and 1" drain? 3/4" should flow roughly 650gph under siphon while a 1" will do about 950gph. Your return pump should push about 1100gph wide open with no restriction at about 5' of head pressure so two 3/4" returns could support that with ease. It would take a bit of "tuning" to get the dual returns to work in unison in separate boxes but I dont think it would be to tough. 150gph max flowing through the second drain of the herbie should be silent but there would probably be next to nothing flowing through it with typical restriction for fitting etc. 

 

You could probably use one of the 1" drains as a return, use the other 1" drain as the main, one 3/4" as the open, and the other 3/4" as the emergency channel as well. This is all based on the overflows having a 1" and 3/4" bulkhead, if they're all 1" your in great shape. 

[flooddc]

Each overflow has one 3/4" return and 1" drain? 3/4" should flow roughly 650gph under siphon while a 1" will do about 950gph. Your return pump should push about 1100gph wide open with no restriction at about 5' of head pressure so two 3/4" returns could support that with ease. It would take a bit of "tuning" to get the dual returns to work in unison in separate boxes but I dont think it would be to tough. 150gph max flowing through the second drain of the herbie should be silent but there would probably be next to nothing flowing through it with typical restriction for fitting etc. 

 

You could probably use one of the 1" drains as a return, use the other 1" drain as the main, one 3/4" as the open, and the other 3/4" as the emergency channel as well. This is all based on the overflows having a 1" and 3/4" bulkhead, if they're all 1" your in great shape. 

Yup! each overflow has a 3/4 and a 1". I am using both 3/4 as return. The cube has one 3/4" as return as well. Between the 2 tank, my two mag 18 put out roughly (2x1100) 2200gph. For simplicity, assume each return pipe returns approx. 730gph. The two 1" drains in the 210G currently easily support the flow of the two returns. I tried to restricted one drain at the far end today to see if Herbie style can support the current flow, the DT overflowed as there is no full siphon in place. As Alan mentioned, full siphon would give more flow. My search result indicated, full siphon on a 1" would be 1500gph. If this is true, this could work, but I think 1500gph is unrealistic. Even so, I feel that it will be trouble down the road, partially clogged or worse will definitely flood the DT. The only way I can comfortably do Herbie is to cut my flow back. I am going try a few things before I give in. will give filter sock a try.       

[madweazl]

In reality, herbie is fairly risky regardless. Where did you find the flow rate of 1" pvc at 1500ghp under siphon? I'd like to read some more about that.

[flooddc]

In reality, herbie is fairly risky regardless. Where did you find the flow rate of 1" pvc at 1500ghp under siphon? I'd like to read some more about that.

http://gmacreef.com/herbie-overflow-reef-tank-plumbing-method-basics/

[wangspeed]

I'm using 1" siphon and run a Jebao DC 12000 at 1/2 speed. I know it's not linear, but it maxes around 3000 gph. My gate valve is closed quite a bit. I have a straight drop though. I usually leave my emergency dry, but if I overfill a bit during WC, and get lazy with the mesh sock and let it go a week, I do see the level creep up and it'll trickle down the emergency.

 

Anyways, it's a choice for you. I'm a noise freak, so it's really the only way for me.

[AlanM]

On a herbie, you would use only one overflow box as the drain system.  One 3/4" as the full siphon and the 1" in the same box as the dry emergency.  You'd leave the full siphon one with no standpipe in it at all, or a short one if the box itself isn't watertight and has drain openings on the bottom like the Marineland ones sometimes do.  Otherwise it will siphon out the whole tank.  The dry emergency is larger because it will need to handle the entire flow if the 3/4" clogs.  Since you'll be valving down the 3/4" pipe the flow rate through it will easily make it down the larger 1" dry emergency which has no valve at all.  Then you just tweak the gate valve beneath the 3/4" from time to time to keep the water level in the box between the siphon one and the emergency one.  If it rises up too high you'll hear it start trickling down the dry emergency.  The reason the emergency pipe is kept dry, ideally, is that then you don't have to wonder if it has narrowed due to sponges, snail shells, algae, aiptasia, etc.  If it's dry, it's clean.

 

The other box can be used as two returns, both the 3/4" and the 1" if you'd like.

 

The reason you don't want to mix the siphon and emergency between the two boxes is that they aren't connected bodies of water.  The water level in the two of them will be different and you could run into a situation where the siphon clogs, but the emergency in the other one can't keep up (if it's the same size) or it trickles all the time or whatever.  

 

The herbie design depends on the siphon and emergency being both in the same volume of water, meaning the same overflow box.

[AlanM]

In reality, herbie is fairly risky regardless. Where did you find the flow rate of 1" pvc at 1500ghp under siphon? I'd like to read some more about that.

 

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

 

For a herbie or BA design pick "submerged".  I chose 36 inches of head height between the tank water surface and the sump water surface.  Schedule 40 PVC is 1.05" interior diameter.  Putting those numbers in I get 2246 gph in 1" PVC for a 3 foot drop between tank and sump.  Siphon rules.

[madweazl]

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

 

For a herbie or BA design pick "submerged".  I chose 36 inches of head height between the tank water surface and the sump water surface.  Schedule 40 PVC is 1.05" interior diameter.  Putting those numbers in I get 2246 gph in 1" PVC for a 3 foot drop between tank and sump.  Siphon rules.

Great find, thanks!

[AlanM]

Great find, thanks!

 

If you're using furniture grade, it's even thinner walled and you get even more flow. 8)

[flooddc]

I'm using 1" siphon and run a Jebao DC 12000 at 1/2 speed. I know it's not linear, but it maxes around 3000 gph. My gate valve is closed quite a bit. I have a straight drop though. I usually leave my emergency dry, but if I overfill a bit during WC, and get lazy with the mesh sock and let it go a week, I do see the level creep up and it'll trickle down the emergency.

 

Anyways, it's a choice for you. I'm a noise freak, so it's really the only way for me.

 

Very interesting! 3000gph through a tiny pipe. I supposed you're drain is very short. Have you tested to see what happen should you loss siphon or clogged?

 

On a herbie, you would use only one overflow box as the drain system.  One 3/4" as the full siphon and the 1" in the same box as the dry emergency.  You'd leave the full siphon one with no standpipe in it at all, or a short one if the box itself isn't watertight and has drain openings on the bottom like the Marineland ones sometimes do.  Otherwise it will siphon out the whole tank.  The dry emergency is larger because it will need to handle the entire flow if the 3/4" clogs.  Since you'll be valving down the 3/4" pipe the flow rate through it will easily make it down the larger 1" dry emergency which has no valve at all.  Then you just tweak the gate valve beneath the 3/4" from time to time to keep the water level in the box between the siphon one and the emergency one.  If it rises up too high you'll hear it start trickling down the dry emergency.  The reason the emergency pipe is kept dry, ideally, is that then you don't have to wonder if it has narrowed due to sponges, snail shells, algae, aiptasia, etc.  If it's dry, it's clean.

 

The other box can be used as two returns, both the 3/4" and the 1" if you'd like.

 

The reason you don't want to mix the siphon and emergency between the two boxes is that they aren't connected bodies of water.  The water level in the two of them will be different and you could run into a situation where the siphon clogs, but the emergency in the other one can't keep up (if it's the same size) or it trickles all the time or whatever.  

 

The herbie design depends on the siphon and emergency being both in the same volume of water, meaning the same overflow box.

  

http://www.beananimal.com/articles/hydraulics-for-the-aquarist.aspx

 

For a herbie or BA design pick "submerged".  I chose 36 inches of head height between the tank water surface and the sump water surface.  Schedule 40 PVC is 1.05" interior diameter.  Putting those numbers in I get 2246 gph in 1" PVC for a 3 foot drop between tank and sump.  Siphon rules.

Ahh! Drain and emergency pipe. Must be in the same overflow box. Make lots of sense. Lol i was testing in a separate box.

Anyway, it would look weird for me to have 2 return sticking out of one overflow box.

Thank you gentlement! But I am still uncomfortable with this though! Even with emergency pipe bigger than the siphon drain. When siphon failed/clogged, I personally feel that the emergency pipe would not able to handle the flow since it will not be in full siphon.