Random question about 2 part dosing

[dante411x]

So, let's ignore my tank parameters for this discussion, it's safe to say that they're low, stay low and I've been dosing 2 part for a good while now with no improvement in the low readings of calcium or magnesium. My alkalinity however is raising itself very well and now sits around 11.

However, today I noticed something that has got me worried that maybe the calcium part of the 2 part BRS solution was mixed up somehow. 

 

When I dose the alkalinity part, right when the solution hits the water it turns a bit cloudy and dissolves almost instantly. From all the searching on forums everywhere, that seems to be normal.

 

However, before, when I would dose the calcium part, there was no cloudy anything at all. It just dropped in and everything looked good. But when I saw my dosing pump go off today, when the calcium part hit water, it turned cloudy, exactly the same as what the alkalinity solution looks like. 

 

Is that normal? Or am I dosing alkalinity twice because something got switched around somewhere?

[dante411x]

Looking at the powders themselves, both of them look and smell exactly the same. I picked them up at my LFS, they were just refills. I'm just worried that maybe somehow I got two alk bags of powder by accident instead of one cal and one alk

[dante411x]

Not sure how helpful a picture of the two would be, but in case the powders aren't supposed to look alike at all:

Left is calcium, right is alkalinity.

[Rob A]

Can you check the pH of both solutions? I assume the alk would be much higher than the calcium. I have BRS 2 part at home and could check to give you a reference when I get home if you'd like.

[dante411x]

Can you check the pH of both solutions? I assume the alk would be much higher than the calcium. I have BRS 2 part at home and could check to give you a reference when I get home if you'd like.

I'll try that! Hmm. I either have an ATI test kit that I'm not sure if the range is good enough for it. Or I could just stick my apex probe into the solution and see what happens... Any reason not to do that? Id wash it in rodi before and after..?

[Rob A]

That's what I was going to try (apex probe). The high calibration solution for the probe is 10 so I would hope it could handle it. I stuck it in a kalk solution once that was 12. You could dilute both solutions with some fresh water if you want but too much dilution might skew the readings.

I would put a bit of the solutions into different containers for testing so you don't contaminate the main jugs. My probe has enough stuff on it to create new life...I need to clean it.

[dante411x]

Well, I just did that. I think it's all alkalinity.

Both the calcium and alkalinity solutions I've been using tested at 11.1 ph.

And I made a new gallon of calcium and that tested at 11.4

[Origami]

Take the dry powder from each and mix a little vinegar in the sample. Baking soda will bubble vigorously, releasing a lot of CO2 from the reaction. Mixing calcium chloride with water will typically warm the water a little as it's an exothermic reaction. Try the vinegar test and see if you get the same results.

[dante411x]

Take the dry powder from each and mix a little vinegar in the sample. Baking soda will bubble vigorously, releasing a lot of CO2 from the reaction. Mixing calcium chloride with water will typically warm the water a little as it's an exothermic reaction. Try the vinegar test and see if you get the same results.

Good call!

 

And it's definitely the same thing after that test. Vigorous bubbling after adding vinegar to both. No warming.

[dante411x]

And in other news: how to try to crash your tank by not paying attention (and trusting that the right mixes are given to you)

[Origami]

OK. So you've now probably got higher alkalinity than you want. Can you get a good measure of it? If too high, options are: a) Stop dosing alk and wait it out, while maintaining the other chemistry; or b) perform a water changes to bring it down.  How big is your tank?

[dante411x]

OK. So you've now probably got higher alkalinity than you want. Can you get a good measure of it? If too high, options are: a) Stop dosing alk and wait it out, while maintaining the other chemistry; or b) perform a water changes to bring it down. How big is your tank?

I just unplugged the dosing pump. About to test alk. Last test it was at 11.2 and that was a week ago.

 

It's 220 gallons. Plus 75g sump plus 30g frag tank. I'd safely assume at least 275g total volume.

 

So going and getting the calcium and continuing dosing with way higher cal and way lower alk is a bad idea?

[epleeds]

You want to slowly lower the ALK. Doing it fast is asking for trouble. Just take it off line, do a 20% water change if you can and let it slowly go down. Do the proper calculation for your CAL consumption and dose accordingly. It might take a week or two to stabilize, but its better then crashing the tank.

[Origami]

I just unplugged the dosing pump. About to test alk. Last test it was at 11.2 and that was a week ago.

 

It's 220 gallons. Plus 75g sump plus 30g frag tank. I'd safely assume at least 275g total volume.

 

So going and getting the calcium and continuing dosing with way higher cal and way lower alk is a bad idea?

Ah heck. 11.2 isn't that bad. I used to routinely run my tank at 10 dKH. If things in your tank don't look like they're having trouble with it, just stop dosing alk for a little while while you continue to do your other dosing. Let the alk gradually drift down until it reaches the level that you desire, then begin your dosing regimen again. 

[Origami]

If your alk is 12 or higher (that's kind of an arbitrary, experienced-reefer kind of number) you may want to perform a modest water change. You can very safely bring your alk down a dKH per day which would probably put you in the 20% water change range depending upon what salt you use. 

 

Again, though, if things look like they're faring well in your tank, I'd probably just let it ride its way down naturally. In a thriving tank, you can easily consume a dKH or more per day.

[dante411x]

If your alk is 12 or higher (that's kind of an arbitrary, experienced-reefer kind of number) you may want to perform a modest water change. You can very safely bring your alk down a dKH per day which would probably put you in the 20% water change range depending upon what salt you use.

 

Again, though, if things look like they're faring well in your tank, I'd probably just let it ride its way down naturally. In a thriving tank, you can easily consume a dKH or more per day.

Just tested. 13.4

 

Everything in the tank is doing ok except my birdsnest. It almost looks like stn, and I hope that it's from too high alk. I'll just leave it alone with no supplements for a day and see what it tests tomorrow at the same time. Hopefully it'll be dropping a bit. I can do a 25g water change immediately and another 50g tomorrow if necessary.

[epleeds]

At 13.4, I would do the water changes.

[Origami]

At 13.4, I would do the water changes.

+1 That's a tad high for my comfort. (But there used to be a community of reefers that routinely ran their tanks at super high alk - upwards of 13-17 at times.)

 

Start preparing your water and do a couple of 20% water changes over the next few days. Be prepared to frag the birdnest if the tissue recession doesn't stop.

[dante411x]

Yea, I'm already doing the water change, it's the first water change since I changed the mixing setup and I'm marveling with how easy it is

 

I already have a bunch of frags of the birdsnest, they are in the same system though, so high hopes that they don't decide to start going the same way. About to make a run to te store and get real calcium BRS powder and make that. Then I figure I'll keep dosing the same amount I have been, just keep alk off for a week until it drops to a more comfortable level.

 

Thanks for the advice gentlemen. Hopefully this potential crash has been avoided

[YHSublime]

Remember, nothing good happens fast. Although alk is high right now, don't try to compensate by bringing it down quickly. I wouldn't up your calcium yet, unless it is super low, as it will sink your alk with your water changes as well.

 

IMO I would stick to the 20% water changes a day like Tom suggested, and not dose anything.

 

I always double check when I mix up my dosing solutions, fwiw. I'm super scared about doing exactly what you did.

[dante411x]

Yeah. Calcium is around 320. As of last week anyway. I'll do those tests later.

 

And as far as checking to make sure I didn't mix it up... I'm not sure how to go about it any better than what I did originally. I walk into store, ask for a gallon of calcium powder, alkalinity powder and two parts of magnesium powder. I get handed 4 labeled bags. I mix them according to BRS instructions. I didn't mix it up..

[Origami]

Yeah. Calcium is around 320. As of last week anyway. I'll do those tests later.

 

And as far as checking to make sure I didn't mix it up... I'm not sure how to go about it any better than what I did originally. I walk into store, ask for a gallon of calcium powder, alkalinity powder and two parts of magnesium powder. I get handed 4 labeled bags. I mix them according to BRS instructions. I didn't mix it up..

You probably mean 420...

 

As for the product mix up, report the error back to the vendor so they can make corrections to their handling procedure.

[dante411x]

Nope. 320. It's very low

[Rob A]

Cool trick with the vinegar!

I checked the pH of my additives. The calcium was 6.45 and the alk was 11.5.

[YHSublime]

Normally, like Tom mentioned also, the calcium mix will warm the water a little bit when you stir it/shake it. I didn't know about it until i mixed up my first batch.