nitrate think tank I'm at my wits end

[YHSublime]

Is the skimmer to small for 200 gallons with a heavy bio load?????

 

I would say you're pushing it.

[Squishie89]

Could your kids be putting something in the tank? Maybe set up a web cam and have it log photos to see if something is happening you are unaware of.

[Rob A]

Vodka worked for my frag and my display (220 with 50 gal sump), which I think works the same way as the pellets? Tank was set up in July 2013 and It took many months to bring nitrates down. I was up to 50 mil a day when they finally dropped so I cut back to 25 a day. Nitrates were at 10ppm this weekend. Not much coral in the display, I left it in the frag tank while waiting for the nitrates to drop. I've been bad about water changes the last 6 months due to a relatives health issues but I'm getting back on track. Display has a deep sand bed, 200 lbs or so of rock, asm g2 skimmer and a uv sterilizer.

[pizzaguy]

So I know vodka and vinegar are options but since the bio pellets didn't work is there any point in the other options??

[AlanM]

Is the skimmer to small for 200 gallons with a heavy bio load?????

Maybe this is it. 200 is at the edge of their stated specs.

[trockafella]

You could try setting up a Xenia farm. They're known to have some good ability to take up nutrients. Just throwing it out there as it seems you've tried pretty much everything else. I feel for you, I've been fighting the endless phosphate battle. Good luck.

[zygote2k]

I'd continue to run the biopellets because they do work. I took 2 tanks from 75-100 ppm N03 to zero/10ppm in a few months. Leave it on there because it's not hurting anything.

You say heavy bio-load- please elaborate?

[pizzaguy]

Rob I have alot of fish.

Xl mag foxface

Xl hippo tang

LG to mini tang

LG yellow tang

5 clowns

2 pajama cardinals

Anthias

And 3 other smaller fish. Don't remember names.

[Origami]

Eric, it sounds like you may be phosphate limited. Biological filtration needs both phosphate and nitrate to draw each down. (BTW GFO is used to draw down phosphates, not nitrates.) If this is the case, you may need to add phosphate to the system gradually to fuel the biological processes that consume both N and P.

 

The central thought here regards the Redfield ratio. Scanning some links, this one stood out as one that might be worth reading.

http://buddendo.home.xs4all.nl/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm

 

 

Sent from my LG-V510 using Tapatalk

 

 

[pizzaguy]

It's funny you say that tom because I've never had phosphates that were barely detectable. Using a hanna phosphate regular not the ulr I have 0 phosphates always have and also tested with junky api and also get 0. How do you add phosphates? ?

[Rob A]

I have:

 

Jumbo Sailfin

Large Hippo

Med powder blue

Med naso

3 yellow tangs

7 chromis

2 clowns

Engineer goby

Cardinal

 

Oh, I do have chaeto in my sump forgot to mention that earlier, with a 5100k flood. A couple years ago when I had a 120 I had high nitrates and the chaeto didn't grow. I think I had a different light at the time. Now with the 220 system and the 5100k it grows. I didn't think my nitrates would come down because it had been so long and I'm too embarrassed to say how high they were (higher than yours). I always hear or see people say they don't have nitrate problems and I'm like, "how the heck does everyone but me have 0 nitrates!?"

Edited May 15, 2014 by Rob A

[BowieReefer84]

Rob I have alot of fish.

Xl mag foxface

Xl hippo tang

LG to mini tang

LG yellow tang

5 clowns

2 pajama cardinals

Anthias

And 3 other smaller fish. Don't remember names.

Honestly, I would remove some livestock.  It could only help. Maybe swap some of the XL fish for tiny versions of the same.

Edited May 15, 2014 by BowieReefer84

[AlanM]

LOL.  Normally the redfield ratio works in the other direction where all of the nitrate gets used up by vodka dosing or biopellets but phosphate stays.  Not sure you have to "add" phosphate, but maybe leave the GFO off and any other phosphate reducers offline and see if your nitrate starts dropping.

[howaboutme]

I'm still wondering how the NO3 got that high in the first place since Eric said this is from Day 1, literally. The redfield ratio may help it drop...doesn't solve how it got that high initially..Very weird.

[pizzaguy]

I'm lost puzzled and clueless. But I can tell you I have really close to no detectable phosphates and if they need to be present to reduce nitrates this could be the ongoing problem. Now how to figure this out.

[Origami]

It's funny you say that tom because I've never had phosphates that were barely detectable. Using a hanna phosphate regular not the ulr I have 0 phosphates always have and also tested with junky api and also get 0. How do you add phosphates? ?

From the link, the person was suggesting using K2HPO4 . I've not used it before, so I can't really say.

 

I'm still wondering how the NO3 got that high in the first place since Eric said this is from Day 1, literally. The redfield ratio may help it drop...doesn't solve how it got that high initially..Very weird.

I can't answer that. If GFO was being used very aggressively, then phosphates could have been removed by that, leaving the nitrates to accumulate from decomposing food and waste.

[AlanM]

I'll give you some of my phosphate. 8)

 

Or, and this sounds crazy, use some dechlorinated or "aged" city tap water for your topoff for a while, heh.  You'll get plenty of phosphate.  Also plenty of alkalinity. 

[jaddc]

Eric, it sounds like you may be phosphate limited. Biological filtration needs both phosphate and nitrate to draw each down. (BTW GFO is used to draw down phosphates, not nitrates.) If this is the case, you may need to add phosphate to the system gradually to fuel the biological processes that consume both N and P.

 

The central thought here regards the Redfield ratio. Scanning some links, this one stood out as one that might be worth reading.

http://buddendo.home.xs4all.nl/aquarium/redfield_eng.htm

 

 

Sent from my LG-V510 using Tapatalk

^^^^^ This.

 

In a larger point, aside from having a high nitrate number, what is going wrong with the tank that you want to fix? Are corals dying or not growing to your satisfaction?

[jaddc]

I'll give you some of my phosphate. 8)

 

Or, and this sounds crazy, use some dechlorinated or "aged" city tap water for your topoff for a while, heh.  You'll get plenty of phosphate.  Also plenty of alkalinity. 

 

You'll get a ton of nitrates too. 

[Sharkey18]

There must be some huge source of nitrates. I doubt it's your feeding or your skimmer. Your skimmer is large enough that you shouldn't have nitrates of 80.  Water changes are not really very helpful if you can't find the source. 

 

When you say it's been there since day 1, you mean the first day the tank was wet? Did you start with new or live sand? 

 

If it was me, I would slowly vacuum out the sand bed. That will remove the nutrient sink and whatever detritus has settle in there. Cleaning it is not really going to help enough if that's the source. If you love the look of sand you can replace it later. 

 

If after you remove the sand, you still have nigh nitrates, I would start removing rock, one at a time.  

 

+1 on the idea to swap out the XL fish for smaller versions. Tangs are poop monsters. 

 

You are a point of shutting it all down anyhow, so might as well give it a shot. 

[jaddc]

Another thought, what about removing the SPS coral and adding more dirty water tolerant coral?

[Sharkey18]

So I just read through your build thread. looks like you started with fresh sand.  Do you have an updated FTS? 

 

Your tank is so packed I am concerned that there is no where near enough flow through the bottom third of the tank. That could lead to massive amounts of detritus under the rocks and in the sand bed.

[YHSublime]

So I just read through your build thread. looks like you started with fresh sand.  Do you have an updated FTS? 

 

Your tank is so packed I am concerned that there is no where near enough flow through the bottom third of the tank. That could lead to massive amounts of detritus under the rocks and in the sand bed.

 

That's also my concern, I talked with Eric months ago about making sure he had enough flow, I think the detrius just gets trapped.

 

I also think that lightening his bio load is a good suggestion.

[AlanM]

 

I also think that lightening his bio load is a good suggestion.

 

Isaac is only saying that because he is interested in your corals and seeing what from yours he can pack into his overstuffed tank. 8)

[AlanM]

You'll get a ton of nitrates too. 

 

Maybe some, but they don't add nitrate to the water on purpose.  They do add orthophosphate to the water to help with lead or something.  At least when we filled up our child care center tank with dechlorinated tap a week ago I tested 1.0ppm nitrate after a few days but 3.0ppm phosphate.