lnevo April 13, 2014 Share April 13, 2014 (edited) Sorry just thinking on what I said, and since co2 in the air and water does play an influence, it technically can balance out if your fresh water is high enough but that wouldn't be the case for calcium and either way you are making big swings by doing so. I would still recommend supplementing especially considering that if your balanced in the 5s its not really the best level to be at. Edited April 13, 2014 by lnevo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 13, 2014 Author Share April 13, 2014 Thanks Lee, no problem. We're all learning here. I will report back tomorrow night w/ a Hanna #. The frag from graham didn't make it. All other new sps are fine, I hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 15, 2014 Author Share April 15, 2014 Tested w/ the Hanna just now. I must say, so much easier than the ULR. I tested twice, using both cuvettes. For the regents, I did not use the extra syringe tip. I'm not even sure why it's included as its not needed to fill the syringe up or dispense the regents into the cuvettes. Anyways, I hope I'm not getting false readings because I'm suppose to use them. Test 1: 88 ppm or ~ 4.9 dkh Test 2: 83 ppm or ~ 4.7 dkh Based on those numbers, the Red Sea tests must be right. I'm still a bit in shock that a tank can function at this low alk. It's not suppose to. My next step is to dose baking soda to get my alk to 7 dkh. The calculator is telling (based on 25G water volume and using 5 dkh to be safe and raising it to 7 dkh), I need to dose 1.2 tsp (teaspoon) into the tank. I am a bit concerned about how though. I read that dosing baking soda can lower your ph a bit. My ph runs on the low side of about 7.7 to a high of 8.0 to 8.1. Remember my trend? It's trending lower, both low and high in the last few days/week. The plan is to add the 1.2 tsp to a cup of RODI water. Then I was thinking of only adding it at night when the ph is at it's highest. To do it slowly, this means I may need to do it over 4 nights if I split it up by 4 doses. Or do you think I can split it up amongst 2 nights? I think splitting it up between 4 nights may not even bring it up because it's being consumed all the while. Some advice about how to dose that quantity would be appreciated. After bringing my alk up, I will continue to monitor both alk and ca and then decide what to do next. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime April 15, 2014 Share April 15, 2014 Check out brs dosing video. He adds soda ash in a dosing cup over a short tune period. If you can bring it up 1dkh a day, I would venture to say 2 days should be ok. I think Tom mentioned on a previous thread if mine he brought his dkh up by 3 or 4 in 24 hours, although he did not recommend doing so. My vote goes for 2 days. Or you could do 4 doses in 2 days if you want to be safe, quarter at night, quarter in the morning, repeat. My 2 cents fwiw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 15, 2014 Author Share April 15, 2014 Check out brs dosing video. He adds soda ash in a dosing cup over a short tune period. If you can bring it up 1dkh a day, I would venture to say 2 days should be ok. I think Tom mentioned on a previous thread if mine he brought his dkh up by 3 or 4 in 24 hours, although he did not recommend doing so. My vote goes for 2 days. Or you could do 4 doses in 2 days if you want to be safe, quarter at night, quarter in the morning, repeat. My 2 cents fwiw Yeah, I have heard of the no more than 1 dkh per day. Now I wonder if I can dump half of rodi cup (1 dkh) 1 night and the other cup the next night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachabballi reef April 15, 2014 Share April 15, 2014 I've always done 2dkh per day and been ok...but just my experience Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 15, 2014 Author Share April 15, 2014 I've always done 2dkh per day and been ok...but just my experience Ok, thanks Jenn. It looks like there's a wide array of possible scenarios. I will try to attempt to dose my full dosage over 2x's @ 1 per day at night when the ph is at it's highest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachabballi reef April 15, 2014 Share April 15, 2014 you are going to be amazed by your tank once you have it stabilized by dosing etc. What you think is a pretty darn good tank is going to be gorgeous and mind blowing in a couple of months....I am excited to see the difference...its a great time to snap pics of all the corals etc to compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djplus1 April 15, 2014 Share April 15, 2014 you are going to be amazed by your tank once you have it stabilized by dosing etc. What you think is a pretty darn good tank is going to be gorgeous and mind blowing in a couple of months....I am excited to see the difference...its a great time to snap pics of all the corals etc to compare You think dosing makes that much of a difference? I've been sitting on my doser's since Black Friday, just haven't gotten around to hooking up the system yet. Was actually planning on waiting till I installed my basement sump, so maybe I should get a move on, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachabballi reef April 15, 2014 Share April 15, 2014 You think dosing makes that much of a difference? I've been sitting on my doser's since Black Friday, just haven't gotten around to hooking up the system yet. Was actually planning on waiting till I installed my basement sump, so maybe I should get a move on, huh? Honestly, I never did before this last tank I set up...I used to be pretty cavalier about dosing and keeping things rock steady....and I was always pretty darn happy with my tanks. When I decided to set the 180 up last year and REALLY commit to it and getting it as completely automated as i could to make me successful with keeping up with it (I am inherently a very lazy person so after the initial newness wears off I lose the energy to stay up on things day after day) I am shocked at the success of the tank. Isaac asked me to take some pics and I really do need to do it because I am just so amazed that I barely touch this tank at all and it is my most successful SPS tank in the last 12 years. I really do contribute that to nothing else but stability, which I directly contribute to the BRS dosers that do all the work and keep the numbers rock solid. Pretty quickly after I set them up I started to notice a difference in PE extension and color and growth, but a couple of months later the corals exploded. I started my entire tank with frags that were are tiny 1-1.5" frags...it was seriously ridiculous looking for a very long time... SET THEM UP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 15, 2014 Author Share April 15, 2014 Dimitri...I was (and maybe slightly still am) a skeptic. Also, disclaimer, I am a skeptic in general. Jenn probably remembers a bit of my old posts and comments. I have always questioned the need for dosing and have followed that general path with the maintenance of my current tank. The fact of the matter is, if my tank was fully stocked and I didn't plan on adding more sps pieces, I may not be doing what I am about to do as I think the corals in my tank now have acclimated enough to the lower alk and are well. But in order to lower the risk of wasting money on future harder sps pieces, I think bringing it up is the right thing to do. An explosion of growth on old pieces will be a great bonus as well as some better color. What am I doing to do afterwards as far as maintaining? I am not sure yet. Taking a photo is a good idea, Jenn. I will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc April 15, 2014 Share April 15, 2014 (edited) I have work to do...but meh... rather think about our hobby :-) Consistency. In the vast ocean, the local levels of nutrients rarely change (if they do it is because of a severe weather event or current shift). Wild coral grows well and fast (relatively) because nothing changes significantly over a long period of time. Coral would grow and live forever were it not for the competition for light and space (and...humans). Great tanks are, at their core, consistent. Now, how one one achieves that consistency is a matter of opinion, skill, and money. Coral can put up with a lot of stress (some more than others). Some SPS can survive low Alk for quite some time. But if a coral is putting up with stress then it is not growing and colored to its full potential. Of course, stress can come from numbers that are too high or low (and those are easy to notice). However, over the long term, rapidly changing numbers cause just as much stress. No matter how one does it -- ZeoVit, kalk, dosers, water changes, voodoo -- the goal is to aim for the center of the target (accuracy) and keep your aim there without any drift (precision). Only then will the coral stop stressin' and start growin'. Edited April 15, 2014 by jaddc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 15, 2014 Share April 15, 2014 1 or 2 dKH over a day isn't going to hurt you. If you want to manage the steps, dose 4 times at 0.5 dKH for each step. Just space it out so the pH impact is not too much too suddenly. Over the long haul, it won't matter if you dose baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) or soda ash (baked baking soda or sodium carbonate), because the CO2 equilibrium from the surrounding air will drive the tank pH back to the same point. HOWEVER, sodium carbonate will give you a definite pH spike upwards if you're not careful about dosing it gradually. Regular baking soda will drop your pH a little, but only for a short time. Nothing that I really worry about. Dosing calcium and alkalinity can make a huge difference in growth in tanks where these components are in short supply. It provides the building blocks that corals use for building their hard skeletons. It also can provide a buffered pH that is favorable to deposition of coral skeleton material. Once a tank sees enough growth, dosing in one way or another (calcium reactors, kalkwasser, kalk slurry, two part, etc.) becomes almost inevitable as water changes can't keep up and become too expensive an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Djplus1 April 15, 2014 Share April 15, 2014 Well, I've been a kalk stirred for a while, so I think I've staved off the need to dose 2 part so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 16, 2014 Author Share April 16, 2014 Well, I'm not a virgin (to dosing) anymore. I dissolved 1.2 tsp of baking soda in a cup of RODI water. I then added half of that cup to the tank. Here is how the ph responded (circled in red): It went from about 8.1 to about 8.05 or 8.06. That's pretty good as the chemistry site said to not let ph fluctuate more than .2. I then checked my Alk about an hour later (is that too early?). Alk is now at 5.5 dkh (98ppm on Hanna) and only a 0.5 dkh increase. I was expecting a larger increase but maybe I tested too soon? Should I wait 24 hrs? I was about to drop the entire cup in there after I saw that but I resisted the urge. I will add the final half of the cup tomorrow night and see where I am. I suspect that I calculated too safely and that I will not make it up to 7 dkh and will have to continue to add baking soda the following night. Thanks for following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnevo April 16, 2014 Share April 16, 2014 Why not soda ash if your worried about ph? The ph should balance out fairly quickly. I usually tested the next day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 16, 2014 Author Share April 16, 2014 Why not soda ash if your worried about ph? The ph should balance out fairly quickly. I usually tested the next day. Good question. The bottom line is I am short on time with my family and work obligations right now so using just baking soda is the fastest way and finding soda ash (as opposed to baking the baking soda) is harder to find. I will test before my next 1/2 cup tonight for my Alk. An interesting thing is happening w/ my ph though. Lately, my low has been hoovering around 7.6 ish but last night and this morning, I am around 7.7 or 7.8 ish. A pretty good increase in the low. Could this be a positive side effect of the slightly higher Alk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami April 16, 2014 Share April 16, 2014 Why not soda ash if your worried about ph? The ph should balance out fairly quickly. I usually tested the next day. Soda ash is way more aggressive with increasing pH than baking soda is on reducing pH in my experience. If I use soda ash, I have to drip it in slowly. When I use baking soda, I feel free to dump it into a high flow area all at once. Unless your pH is exceptionally low (like 7.8), I'd use baking soda for convenience sake. Jack, just add what's needed until the alk is boosted to the desired level. The calculator assumes a lot of things when giving you volumes - product density, level of hydration, etc. Sounds like you're on the right track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 17, 2014 Author Share April 17, 2014 Thanks Tom for the encouragement. I dosed the 2nd half of my cup of baking soda tonight. Before I did that, I tested my Alk and it was 5.3 dkh. Last night, 1 hr after dosing the 1st half cup, it was 5.5 dkh. I'm not sure I can call that consumption since the dose might still have been raising the Alk long after I took the first test. After tonight's dose, my test 1 hr later yielded an Alk of 6.3 dkh. It raised it a full 1 dkh and also dropped the ph slightly just like last night but it bounced back pretty fast and the drop was not nearly as much tonight for some reason. I have mixed .5 tsp of baking soda ready for the final dose tomorrow night to, hopefully, raise it to 7 dkh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime April 17, 2014 Share April 17, 2014 I'm still working on my consumption. 2 days of dosing, only .20 dkh increase, need maaaas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 17, 2014 Author Share April 17, 2014 I'm still working on my consumption. 2 days of dosing, only .20 dkh increase, need maaaas Chase it mi amigo! Chase it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachabballi reef April 17, 2014 Share April 17, 2014 Why 7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 17, 2014 Author Share April 17, 2014 Why 7? Good question. I don't think it's my max, more of a first stage, which is to get my alk to a safe zone. I guess it's the minimum. I will then experiment a bit after I figure out consumption. I am open to raising alk higher and using my eye as a gauge. But first things first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sachabballi reef April 17, 2014 Share April 17, 2014 I like somewhere around 9.....I like it for its room to be able to increase or decrease and also as middle ground for any frags I get from other people.... just me $0.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme April 17, 2014 Author Share April 17, 2014 I like somewhere around 9.....I like it for its room to be able to increase or decrease and also as middle ground for any frags I get from other people.... just me $0.02 Jenn..That makes total sense to me and it's not arbitrary. I will keep that in mind as I tinker. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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