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Looks like velvet. I successfully got a bunch of tangs through velvet in a QT tank but it was really hard. You need them out and in copper today. 

I am happy to come help asap. 

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isaac - i gave away and sold most of my extra tanks but i can free up a 46 by tonight if needed. i also have some cupramine and the seachem copper test kit you can have with a biowheel filter and heater, etc. once you get home, if you think it is mv, then get them all out ASAP! it moves incredibly quick.

 

in the future, like someone mentioned, everything (from a store or reefing buddy) needs to be treated appropriately before being introduced into your "clean" system unless purchased from a trusted source that treated the fish ahead of time for you and runs a truly "clean" system. even then i try to qt for a couple weeks. seems like you got lots of offers to help but i'm willing to throw my hand in there as well. shoot me a text or PM if i can help in any way, sir. g'luck!

Edited by monkiboy
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no offense.... but just because it came from an established tank doesn't mean it was healthy to go into your tank...it endured some stress in the transition you know? If all your fish were fine leading up to and that is the only change/ addition into the tank lately is seems logical it is the dot to connect...

but I have to be honest...I have been MIA the last few days so haven't been reading wamas much....so if you have been having issues prior etc...I am probably way off base...Im just jumping in...sorry!

 

No offense taken. It was exhibiting signs before I added the new fish, this is me learning the hard way. This is another cautionary tale as to why QT is so important, as most disease isn't recognized immediately, or even visible. Shame on me.

If you plan to treat your gonna have to pull all the fish and put them in QT. I have chloroquine phosphate if you need it. Some pretty awesome stuff. I can't tell anything from the photo :-/

 

From what I've read this is the best approach to velvet, which I believe Jason is correct about below, he saw on Saturday.

 

After looking at some pics of Marine velvet I think that is what you have. Compare this pic to what your hippo looks like:

2525867_f248.jpg

 

 

The above are MV. I really do think that is what you have man... Sorry :(

 

I agree. It has recently just reared it's head, but I think I'm going to take action based on marine velvet. I want to make sure that even if it's just ich, what I treat with won't harm the fish.

 

Chlorquine phosphate works on ich and marine velvet... Read up on it some. If you have a chance it's a 10 to 14 day treatment but you would need to let that tank go fowlr for 8 weeks or so u less you treat the whole thing.

 

CP will kill inverts, algae but not harm filtration bacteria. It's light sensitive so you have to run extremely reduced lighting other wise you risk reducing the drug strength. All food for thought

 

I did some reading on it, and it seems like one of the best alternatives out there. I'm trying to figure out a QT situation right now. Thanks for the great recommendations.

 

cant he use the cube?? I cant remember what size it is...just recall seeing he grabbed one...

 

Cube is only 8 gallons. Maybe for my clowns. Would rather not treat in the cube.

 

I treated my tangs with food saturated in fresh garlic and aloe. I just blended 2 garlic cloves with ro water added mysis, brine, clam, squid, and aloe. Blended that together for another 30 seconds and then allowed it to sit for 20 minutes. i feed them this for 3 days and after the 1st day I saw a noticeable difference and after the 3rd day they had no more ich!

I now feed them this "medicine" once every week. Try it out it, it may work for you......

Good luck

 

Although this won't help cure the disease, it certainly is not a bad suggestion for regular feedings, thanks Kristin.

 

 

But we don't know if he has it..... Photo doesn't give details of illness..... 

I mean if the tang does eventually eat, might as well make sure the food has some vitamins and or antioxidants in it to help it out.  

 

This is true, but I think this is a correct diagnosis.

 

Oh I agree completely about the vitamin enriched food... I just think that given what he has described I would start a course of treatment sooner rather than later. If the fish is already having difficulty breathing, stopped eating he is gonna have a hard road. But certain meds might give him a good fighting chance and clear up his breathing some.

 

Yes, I have decided to treat.

 

Well hopefully it isn't that as the description is coming from his fiance....

Whatever the case is good luck!

 

Unfortuantly she is just picture taking, I have researched a bit more, and the pictures Jason posted are almost spot on. It's hard to tell on the full grown chevy, as he's almost all black.

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Coral Hind, on 21 Oct 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

I agree. MV can wipe them out in two days if left untreated. If you think it might be MV I would pull all the fish, give them a fresh water bath, and then treat with copper in a QT. Let the DT go fallow for 8 or more weeks. Doing the garlic foods can't hurt and some say it helps stimulate appetite so if you can give it a try. Keep the O2 levels high since the gills may be damaged. I leave the skimmer running but remove the skimmer cup during treatment so the water coverflows back into the sump.

 

I think that it might be, and have made the decision to QT. I've not done a freshwater dip before, I will read into it, but would like any insight. I know this is going to be a pain in the ass endeavor, but one that is necessary, and may save my fish. The chevron is the only fish exhibiting extreme signs, although the hippo does look like it might catch up, all other fish are looking fine, and active, and eating (hippo included.) Although, like I've learned, even if it isn't showing, doesn't mean it isn't there. I will try the garlic foods, but I was unaware of running a skimmer on a QT?

 

howaboutme, on 21 Oct 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Sorry to hear about this Isaac. I know you've poured a lot of your heart and soul into this tank. I'm pulling for you! I have a spare 29G tank if you want. Just let me know.

 

Thanks, Jack. Welcome back, haven't seen you in a while. It's part of the learning curve, apologies not needed, hopefully I can do my due diligence, save all the fish, and clear my DT.

 

roni, on 21 Oct 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Agree with Coralhind.  If it's velvet it goes fast.  That being said, if it's velvet, unless you treat very early, there's usually not much you can do.  I think regardless of what it is, may be time to catch the fish if you can and treat with freshwater dip (which should help either way) and then with cupramine.  If you can't catch the fish or don't have qt setup, then all you can do is feed heavily, oxygenate well, and run uv if you've got it.  

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles.  I had a rough go recently as well and don't add any fish directly to the tank anymore.  

 

I've got an extra 40 breeder if you need it, though I'm guessing there is someone closer to you then me. 

 

Thanks for the offer, Roni. You're a little far from me, and I believe you're right, I can get something a bit closer. From what I've read about MV is that once it shows, it's a little late. Fortunately, it's not showing with my other fish, so I think a full qt will help everything. My fiance is keeping me updated, and said the chevy appears to be doing a bit better than this morning. I am looking into performing freshwater dips, and then trying to figure out what the best form of treatment would be, I've gotten a few recommendations along this thread.

 

Sharkey18, on 21 Oct 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Looks like velvet. I successfully got a bunch of tangs through velvet in a QT tank but it was really hard. You need them out and in copper today. 

I am happy to come help asap. 

 

I don't think it'll be easy. I may take you up on that, catching wont be to hard, my scape makes it pretty easy. I'm going to look into finding a big enough QT tank and proper treatment before I get home tonight.

Coral Hind, on 21 Oct 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

I agree. MV can wipe them out in two days if left untreated. If you think it might be MV I would pull all the fish, give them a fresh water bath, and then treat with copper in a QT. Let the DT go fallow for 8 or more weeks. Doing the garlic foods can't hurt and some say it helps stimulate appetite so if you can give it a try. Keep the O2 levels high since the gills may be damaged. I leave the skimmer running but remove the skimmer cup during treatment so the water coverflows back into the sump.

 

I think that it might be, and have made the decision to QT. I've not done a freshwater dip before, I will read into it, but would like any insight. I know this is going to be a pain in the ass endeavor, but one that is necessary, and may save my fish. The chevron is the only fish exhibiting extreme signs, although the hippo does look like it might catch up, all other fish are looking fine, and active, and eating (hippo included.) Although, like I've learned, even if it isn't showing, doesn't mean it isn't there. I will try the garlic foods, but I was unaware of running a skimmer on a QT?

 

howaboutme, on 21 Oct 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

Sorry to hear about this Isaac. I know you've poured a lot of your heart and soul into this tank. I'm pulling for you! I have a spare 29G tank if you want. Just let me know.

 

Thanks, Jack. Welcome back, haven't seen you in a while. It's part of the learning curve, apologies not needed, hopefully I can do my due diligence, save all the fish, and clear my DT.

 

roni, on 21 Oct 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

Agree with Coralhind.  If it's velvet it goes fast.  That being said, if it's velvet, unless you treat very early, there's usually not much you can do.  I think regardless of what it is, may be time to catch the fish if you can and treat with freshwater dip (which should help either way) and then with cupramine.  If you can't catch the fish or don't have qt setup, then all you can do is feed heavily, oxygenate well, and run uv if you've got it.  

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles.  I had a rough go recently as well and don't add any fish directly to the tank anymore.  

 

I've got an extra 40 breeder if you need it, though I'm guessing there is someone closer to you then me. 

 

Thanks for the offer, Roni. You're a little far from me, and I believe you're right, I can get something a bit closer. From what I've read about MV is that once it shows, it's a little late. Fortunately, it's not showing with my other fish, so I think a full qt will help everything. My fiance is keeping me updated, and said the chevy appears to be doing a bit better than this morning. I am looking into performing freshwater dips, and then trying to figure out what the best form of treatment would be, I've gotten a few recommendations along this thread.

 

Sharkey18, on 21 Oct 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Looks like velvet. I successfully got a bunch of tangs through velvet in a QT tank but it was really hard. You need them out and in copper today. 

I am happy to come help asap. 

 

I don't think it'll be easy. I may take you up on that, catching wont be to hard, my scape makes it pretty easy. I'm going to look into finding a big enough QT tank and proper treatment before I get home tonight.

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monkiboy, on 21 Oct 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

isaac - i gave away and sold most of my extra tanks but i can free up a 46 by tonight if needed. i also have some cupramine and the seachem copper test kit you can have with a biowheel filter and heater, etc. once you get home, if you think it is mv, then get them all out ASAP! it moves incredibly quick.

 

in the future, like someone mentioned, everything (from a store or reefing buddy) needs to be treated appropriately before being introduced into your "clean" system unless purchased from a trusted source that treated the fish ahead of time for you and runs a truly "clean" system. even then i try to qt for a couple weeks. seems like you got lots of offers to help but i'm willing to throw my hand in there as well. shoot me a text or PM if i can help in any way, sir. g'luck!

 

Thanks, Marcos. Cupramine seems like the most suggested treating method, but I've gotten a variety of suggestions as well. I have a biowheel for QT, as well as heaters, I am having my fiance mix up some saltwater this afternoon. Hopefully enough for a 55 at least. I will begin pulling all the fish as soon as I get out of work. Thanks for the offer, I'll let you know if I need it asap.

 

kjamaya, on 21 Oct 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

post up a better pic when you can.

 

Will do.

 

 

sachabballi reef, on 21 Oct 2013 - 1:01 PM, said:

Isaac...come back LOL...this" being at work thing with you" is putting a damper on this conversation  

 

Yeah, work constantly gets in the way of reefing.

 

 

So I've decided to treat, I will be treating the following:

4 chromis

2 clowns

1 melanarus

1 chevron

1 blue eye kole (welcome aboard buddy, sorry...)

1 hippo tang

 

1.) Freshwater bath, how?

2) What do I treat with

3) What size tank would be ideal, I will be putting out a call for a 55-75 gallon that I can use for treatment, keep in mind, for 10 fish. Or are several smaller tanks better?

 

Thanks to WAMAS for all the quick responses, and generous offers. I appreciate everybody putting the scolding aside until I've worked it out, trust me, I'm kicking myself hard enough for everyone.

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isaac I don't have any equipment for you but I do have time to offer if you need any help.....and an ear to listen to you vent. I know you will be as successful as is possible in this situation so I am not offering my shoulder to cry on :)

 

I am sorry that you are going through this....this upgrade has really tested your reefing hobby...and I admire your positive attitude and desire to push through it.

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i would get one tank to do it with....less PIA ....one water change, one heater one of everything that you can no longer use in a reef tank if you treat with copper (a good thing to have anyways)

designate a bucket/syphon tube for changes/airstone/pvc for shelter/heater etc etc etc....

 

get an amonia alert (they work with cupramine too) and then just get things going, the faster the better if yuo ask me.

 

get a sponge from your sump...if you dont have one i have an extra you can have. to get some bacteria in there.

 

 

hypo is probalby the best but a pain to moniter and actually do right....but you can lower teh SG and it should help a little

 

if they are eating keep them eating and fatten as much, most chemicals are apetite supressants.

 

and as for garlic there is alot of yes and no...i hear alot about liver issues caused by garlic and have stayed away.

 

 

Freshwater bath is match the ph and temp as best as possible to the tank, put on a glove, catch fish and transfer...amount of time differs per person...i call sean and ask him for ANYTHING related to treating fish...but there are some good articles online.

tangs often play dead in FW dips...just make sure you look for breathing.

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1.) Freshwater bath, how?

2) What do I treat with

3) What size tank would be ideal, I will be putting out a call for a 55-75 gallon that I can use for treatment, keep in mind, for 10 fish. Or are several smaller tanks better?

the fw dips are a good way to rid the fish of some of the attached trophonts and provide some immediate comfort. it will also greatly reduce the amount of disease that is entering your qt/hospital tank.

 

for the dip you can use a regular 5g bucket. i like to use a white one to better see the fish in there. you will fill the bucket with RO and use a heater to get it to match the water in your tank it came from. if you have the time, try to aerate the water with a air pump and stone for a half hour or more. check the pH and see if you can carefully begin to make sure they match as close as possible as well. after you have completed that, then go ahead and place the fish in your bucket of RO temperature and pH matched water.

 

have a timer handy as you will want the fish in there for at least five minutes but no longer than 15 minutes. you need to be watching the fish the entire time as changes can occur quickly. like someone else mentioned, fish can be listless or resting on their sides of the walls or bottom of bucket and this is ok. check respiratory rate. if a fish begins and sustains overactive behavior like thrashing about you want to stop and remove them immediately. after ten or so minutes (<15) you remove them carefully and place into your qt/hospital tank.

 

you cannot use the same bucket of water for another bath. you need to setup a new bucket of water for the next bath. before reusing you will want to sterilize the bucket.

 

once in the hospital tank treat with cupramine according to directions. you will also want to pick up the seachem test kit (use the copper test kit from manufacturer who makes the copper treatment you are using for most accurate and effective results). 

 

i would think with the smaller fish you have a 75 would be ok and will make treatment and likelihood of success much higher than trying to do water changes and maintain correct copper levels in multiple tanks and get lighting and things situated for multiple tanks. while not awesomely ideal, 75 is what you have and you don't have time to be picky. these fish need treatment ASAP with what you got/can get, sir.

Edited by monkiboy
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isaac I don't have any equipment for you but I do have time to offer if you need any help.....and an ear to listen to you vent. I know you will be as successful as is possible in this situation so I am not offering my shoulder to cry on :)

 

I am sorry that you are going through this....this upgrade has really tested your reefing hobby...and I admire your positive attitude and desire to push through it.

 

Thanks, Jenn. Luckily this easy scape will allow pretty quick catching of all the fish. We've all gotta' learn somehow and some time, I just usually choose the hard way!

 

i would get one tank to do it with....less PIA ....one water change, one heater one of everything that you can no longer use in a reef tank if you treat with copper (a good thing to have anyways)

designate a bucket/syphon tube for changes/airstone/pvc for shelter/heater etc etc etc....

 

get an amonia alert (they work with cupramine too) and then just get things going, the faster the better if yuo ask me.

 

get a sponge from your sump...if you dont have one i have an extra you can have. to get some bacteria in there.

 

 

hypo is probalby the best but a pain to moniter and actually do right....but you can lower teh SG and it should help a little

 

if they are eating keep them eating and fatten as much, most chemicals are apetite supressants.

 

and as for garlic there is alot of yes and no...i hear alot about liver issues caused by garlic and have stayed away.

 

 

Freshwater bath is match the ph and temp as best as possible to the tank, put on a glove, catch fish and transfer...amount of time differs per person...i call sean and ask him for ANYTHING related to treating fish...but there are some good articles online.

tangs often play dead in FW dips...just make sure you look for breathing.

 

Ok, I have a sponge in my sump, I even have some rock I can use that I can get rid of at the end to help speed it along. Sponge isn't huge, but it should do the job. Fortunatly I have a lot of QT equipment designated already. I have 2 large HOB filters, lots of filter floss, a sponge from my DT, some extra pvc, a water heater, etc. I'm going to see if anybody has a 75-100 gallon I can use for QT, although at this stage I will take what I can get.

 

I have a few large air pumps. You can have any that you need Isaac. 

 

Thanks, Jason. I actually have a handful of air pumps I can use, and a powerhead I can spare for this type of ordeal.

 

the fw dips are a good way to rid the fish of some of the attached trophonts and provide some immediate comfort. it will also greatly reduce the amount of disease that is entering your qt/hospital tank.

 

for the dip you can use a regular 5g bucket. i like to use a white one to better see the fish in there. you will fill the bucket with RO and use a heater to get it to match the water in your tank it came from. if you have the time, try to aerate the water with a air pump and stone for a half hour or more. check the pH and see if you can carefully begin to make sure they match as close as possible as well. after you have completed that, then go ahead and place the fish in your bucket of RO temperature and pH matched water.

 

have a timer handy as you will want the fish in there for at least five minutes but no longer than 15 minutes. you need to be watching the fish the entire time as changes can occur quickly. like someone else mentioned, fish can be listless or resting on their sides of the walls or bottom of bucket and this is ok. check respiratory rate. if a fish begins and sustains overactive behavior like thrashing about you want to stop and remove them immediately. after ten or so minutes (<15) you remove them carefully and place into your qt/hospital tank.

 

you cannot use the same bucket of water for another bath. you need to setup a new bucket of water for the next bath. before reusing you will want to sterilize the bucket.

 

once in the hospital tank treat with cupramine according to directions. you will also want to pick up the seachem test kit (use the copper test kit from manufacturer who makes the copper treatment you are using for most accurate and effective results). 

 

i would think with the smaller fish you have a 75 would be ok and will make treatment and likelihood of success much higher than trying to do water changes and maintain correct copper levels in multiple tanks and get lighting and things situated for multiple tanks. while not awesomely ideal, 75 is what you have and you don't have time to be picky. these fish need treatment ASAP with what you got/can get, sir.

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation and help. I will pick up a few buckets on the way home, although i don't think HD carries white buckets. I will pick up some cupramine on the way home from QR, and hopefully find myself a proper tank before COB today. Luckily I made 60 gallons of RO last night, which I will have to mix quickly as I prepare for an emergency QT.

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Thanks for the detailed explanation and help. I will pick up a few buckets on the way home, although i don't think HD carries white buckets. I will pick up some cupramine on the way home from QR, and hopefully find myself a proper tank before COB today. Luckily I made 60 gallons of RO last night, which I will have to mix quickly as I prepare for an emergency QT.

and the seachem copper test kit as well if using cupramine. those levels need to be pretty spot on to have an effective result and a test kit is mandatory. if not available to you at QR and you need to borrow one, i have a new one you can use and i can drive out to tysons to meet with you. g'luck bud.

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I also have a copper test and cupramine if I am closer. 

 

Keep them all in one tank. They will be fine for a few weeks. 

 

I did freshwater baths any time I saw a fish really struggling. Usually every 3 to 5 days.  It kills all the parasite on the fish and does provide some immediate relief.  Then the copper can get the new parasites as they arise. 

 

If the "ick" looks like gold dust it's definitely velvet.... 

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It kills all the parasite on the fish and does provide some immediate relief.  Then the copper can get the new parasites as they arise.

the fw dips/baths will not kill or remove all the parasites on the fish but will significantly reduce their number. there has been at least one study that shows after a prolonged fw bath (much much longer than safe for a fish) parasites were still found on the fish.

Edited by monkiboy
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If the "ick" looks like gold dust it's definitely velvet.... 

 

From what I saw it looked like the fish had a fine dust sticking to them. Kinda like a coral after you stir up the sand bed near them. 

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From what I saw it looked like the fish had a fine dust sticking to them. Kinda like a coral after you stir up the sand bed near them.

+1

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I also have a copper test and cupramine if I am closer.

 

Keep them all in one tank. They will be fine for a few weeks.

 

I will take you up on this offer If that's ok?

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Sorry to hear, hopefully it all works out.

 

Thanks, that makes 2 of us!

 

 

I'll be picking up a 55 tonight. I'm heading home momentarily to start mixing up some SW. I have 60 gallons of RO made up (thank goodness...) and I will use about 10 of that for freshwater dips. I'll be picking up some PH 8.3 buffer tonight in order to match up and prevent shocking tonight. I'll start clearing the tank around 7:30-8, and will experience my first freshwater dips, as well as chemical treatments. Although this is a pretty documented process, I will journal what I can along the way. Even though only 2 fish are showing symptoms of what I belive is velvet, I will treat ALL fish, including those showing no symptoms.

 

Serves me right for tooting my own horn looking for medals and trophies.

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Isaac just text me if you need some CP. I'll bring it with me to work tomorrow just incase.

 

Just a side note when do a freshwater dip. If your fish lay on the bottom and become inactive don't be alarmed... As long as they are still breathing.. I've seen that alot when doing the dips...

Edited by Mattiejay6
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