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Tank is still cloudy


MBVette

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Salt will assist in populating as much as LR assist in providing the surface area for bacterial growth. I'm attesting salt isn't a source of feed/food. My post-doctoral research focuses on uncontrolled cell proliferation in yeast/bacteria, and an aspect of cancer in humans. When I clone bacteria (in my case, E. coli), making liquid media with just salt alone leaves the bacteria in a catatonic state where no cell division occurs but it's still alive. It isn't until I add amino acids (a source for protein), carbohydrate (a carbon source) and phosphates (for DNA synthesis) will the bacteria divide and cause the media to become confluent/cloudy. But salt (or the ions it provides) is important for two aspects: maintaining physiological tonicity (so cells don't implode under hyper salinity/explode under super hypo-salinity) and for enzymatic reactions. But salt will not assist in cell division/DNA replication unless it is contaminated with a source of carb, amino acids & phosphates. That's why I suggested he test whether the salt is contaminated by adding it to RODI water. There's enough bacteria in the air to populate that tank if the salt is contaminated.

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I agree with above: maybe a bad batch of salt (laden with organics)? Might pick up a new bucket to use for next few water changes. If no difference, can jse current salt later. Odd situation.

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ok just did testing.

 

Ammonia: 0

Phosphate: .05

nitrate: .02

 

So nitrate and phosphate have gone up just a bit since the other day. Here are current pictures from a few minutes ago to see how cloudy it still is.

 

right.jpg

 

left.jpg

 

If anyone is willing to come out and take a look I would greatly appreciate it.

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Salt will assist in populating as much as LR assist in providing the surface area for bacterial growth. I'm attesting salt isn't a source of feed/food. My post-doctoral research focuses on uncontrolled cell proliferation in yeast/bacteria, and an aspect of cancer in humans. When I clone bacteria (in my case, E. coli), making liquid media with just salt alone leaves the bacteria in a catatonic state where no cell division occurs but it's still alive. It isn't until I add amino acids (a source for protein), carbohydrate (a carbon source) and phosphates (for DNA synthesis) will the bacteria divide and cause the media to become confluent/cloudy. But salt (or the ions it provides) is important for two aspects: maintaining physiological tonicity (so cells don't implode under hyper salinity/explode under super hypo-salinity) and for enzymatic reactions. But salt will not assist in cell division/DNA replication unless it is contaminated with a source of carb, amino acids & phosphates. That's why I suggested he test whether the salt is contaminated by adding it to RODI water. There's enough bacteria in the air to populate that tank if the salt is contaminated.

 

You do understand aquarium salt is made of elements other than sodium chloride. The point I was trying to make is elements, such as vitamins and aminos within the manufactured reef salt maybe attributing to the condition.

 

We maybe using the term "salt" loosely.

Edited by ridetheducati
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I normally do 1 water change a week (when I have 45 minutes free) I have done more in the last few days since taking the pellets out to hopefully clear the water up. So I have done 2 since then and have water for a third if I needed to.

 

I was hoping taking the pellets out would curtail this bloom of whatever it is, but since they have come out it seems to have gone the other way which confuses me based on everything I have read. What are they eating at this point to continue multiplying at this rate.

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I feel for ya! I think time is going to be the answer....How many fish do you have in the tank?...How much coral and other stuff?

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Fish I have a purple & yellow tank, pair of swallowtail angels, canary blenny, foxface and a pair of clowns.

 

Corals I have a torch, frogspawn, and a few random mushrooms and zoas.

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Im just going to throw this out there, I could be a mile off, but what the heck.....I'm wondering if the tank ever really finish cycling from the beginning? If I'm right, we will start to see the parameters going up. Just a hunch....

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Dont know how we will prove it or anything but Im not buying that. I had an original spike that went up and came back down, big diatom bloom and then the hair algae, so dont see how this is still the cycle. On top of that I have not seen any ammonia at all during this whole thing.

 

Now Im not saying its not some type of second cycle caused by something I did. Whether is be a bigger pump causing more rolling of the pellets, or playing around with things just trying to get the tank setup. But I dont see how this is the original cycle. But I dont know that either one of us could ever prove our opinions on it. But I'd bet you a frag if we ever do figure out a way to prove it :P

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I gotcha.....Just dont know what else it could be. Like I said, just a hunch.

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I think maybe the OP's problem stems from the fact that I think he started the system running BP's initially instead of letting the tank cycle and mature on its own.

 

This is what I think happened. I have not known anyone to start with bio pellets in a brand new tank. My .02 cents

Edited by scott711
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How long has your tank been up and running and how did you cycle the tank initially?

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I will try to find the study that tested salt mixes for there TOC LEVELS.

Rea sea salt had high levels all the others had none but they found that the containers

they used to mix the salts even though they were well used and rinsed in RO water

were adding CARBON to the water change.

They were at a lose why this happened.

Corals in a reef tank were found to add large amounts of TOC to a tank through there mucus.

Combine BIOPELLETS /corals/low flow skimmer/fish/food and you can easily overtax your tanks ability to remove TOCs.

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I looked at the tank today. It's definitely cloudy. What struck me, though, upon closer inspection was the greenish color of the water in the sump. I don't think this is bacteria at all. It's single-celled green algae filling the void left behind when the nutrient-consuming hair algae was removed.

 

The tank is fed once per day and there is a modest population of fish in the tank. It could be overfeeding, but since the rock was not cooked, I wonder if there are decaying organics locked up in the rocks that are now releasing phosphates and nitrates that is feeding this bloom.

 

I am going to loan a small diatom filter to MBVette in hopes that it removes the algae and, essentially, export the nutrients locked up in their cells. If there is still a substantial nutrient problem, the bloom may reappear. Eventually, as the biological filtration matures, it should pass. UV would help prevent this in the future and could even take care of this problem. In that case, the nutrients (locked up in the cells that would die) would be released back into the water and would have to be exported by some other means.

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I looked at the tank today. It's definitely cloudy. What struck me, though, upon closer inspection was the greenish color of the water in the sump. I don't think this is bacteria at all. It's single-celled green algae filling the void left behind when the nutrient-consuming hair algae was removed.

 

The tank is fed once per day and there is a modest population of fish in the tank. It could be overfeeding, but since the rock was not cooked, I wonder if there are decaying organics locked up in the rocks that are now releasing phosphates and nitrates that is feeding this bloom.

 

I am going to loan a small diatom filter to MBVette in hopes that it removes the algae and, essentially, export the nutrients locked up in their cells. If there is still a substantial nutrient problem, the bloom may reappear. Eventually, as the biological filtration matures, it should pass. UV would help prevent this in the future and could even take care of this problem. In that case, the nutrients (locked up in the cells that would die) would be released back into the water and would have to be exported by some other means.

 

Interesting, that happens to nearly every fresh water planted tank, but I've not seen it in a marine tank. A diatom filter should take care of the problem very quickly.

 

MBvette, do you have any macro algae growing in your system?

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Tom,

 

Thanks for coming out this afternoon and taking a look. It's always nice to have someone else take a look and figure out that I am missing something that I should have realized.

 

I don't have any macro right now. But I have some coming in on Friday from incredible corals. So hopefully they can start to take some of te nutrients from the algae.

 

I am also going to get some GFO and start running that along with Tom's diatom filter. So for the short term that should take care of the bloom. For the long term I am going to see if I can find a UV and just have that running which should keep the water clear.

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There is only one thing that i have ever seen make a tank have that haze and its the CARBON dosing.

A good skimmer would be going crazy on that tank.

If you put a downdraft skimmer

on that tank it would clear it up in 1 hour.......

Its funny the biopellets were supposed to be safer then alcohol/vinegar but i never liked the idea of a reactor

full of carbon at least i have control over liquid dosing vs bioplellets.

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Uh i have to disagree...someone mentioned greenish tint to the water in the sump? My old fowlr was always very green...no matter how much skimming i did...i put a large Uv on...and voila! Clear water...just sayin...

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basser. 1st off my skimmer is pulling out tons of stuff, who ever said it is not? And you have never seen a green bloom before without it being due to carbon, even myself who has vastly less experience in this hobby than most here has seen green blooms.

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So I just tested my RO water for phosphates and it is reading .07 so I am now working on figuring out what is causing that.

 

How old are your filters/RO membrane? The Diatom filter should help, if you use the powder with it, it will filter down to 1 micron.

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I got it

 

Did you forget to take the wrapping off the tank.....?

 

Man this would kill me with all the work you have put into it.only thing ive seent that looks like the pic is when you add salt to fresh water prior to it dissolving or when you put fresh water into salt (thermocline kinda deal) but really doubt thats the case

 

your salt wasnt clumping or anything prior to use was it....if tom says the hue is greenish i might go and find a canister filter/diatom filter and run that and see...at this point i dont know if anything would hurt.

 

i definately dont want to tell you to drain and start with new salt

 

 

but with toms point about the uncooked rock.....a good way to test...take out a piece of rock and soak it in a tub of RO/DI water and see what the readings are after a day or to...i would think that if something is leaching that would be your best bet at being able to get a reading.

 

Really hope it clears up soon for you and the school

 

Anyone got a manta ray they could stick in there and see if it is plankton or something (maybe the crab shack is in your tank and plankton is stealing the recipe.....)

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