Big Country February 15, 2012 Share February 15, 2012 (edited) Showing my ignorance with 2 part dosing- why do you use a 3 channel doser for 2 part? Or are we talking about doing Mg too? I have heard that using a Ca Rx is a little better because, by dissolving dead corals, you are also adding inStrontium and whatever other trace elements are needed to build skeleton. You could get a 2 channel doser and dose the Magnesium by hand since the addition of it is so low compared to the Calc and ALK. I dose like 160ml of Mg in my tank a week to keep my levels at 1300ppm and I've got close to 250g of volume of water. A calcium reactor does add other thing that are in the media to the tank, not sure what all is in there, but I still manually dose Mg, my dosage hasn't changed since I hooked up my CaRx, and my levels haven't gone up, so either my tanks using alot more Mg or there isn't much in ARM media. I've never really sat down and figured the cost of 2 part dosing but once I saw the RHF directions on DIY 2 part it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out it's cheaper to buy the stuff yourself than to use BRS, Buckeye Field Supply, ESV, Kent, or Brightwell stuff. I got a bag of mag flake for $18, filled a 5 gal bucket and still have some to use on the sidewalk if it ever snows, probably have enough mag flake for years. Edited February 15, 2012 by Big Country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 15, 2012 Share February 15, 2012 Harvey Salt in Baltimore for Dead Sea Works MagFlake. Preston Driveway Heat is anhydrous Calcium Chloride. Optimally, it's anhydrous - that is, without water in loose association with the calcium chloride. Most of the 6-8% that remains is Calcium Chloride dihydrate, CaCL2*2H2O. A minor amount is in the form of impurities, though. Be aware, though, that this low level of impurities is not guaranteed. After all, this is ice melt, not pharmaceutical grade Calcium Chloride. Converting baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) to soda ash (sodium carbonate) by baking it is cheap, but probably unnecessary if you leave the solution exposed to air for long. After all, the baking only drives off the carbon dioxide in the bicarbonate. Ultimately, if exposed to air, the alk solution will equalize with atmospheric CO2. If kept in a sealed container, you can control this equalization. The difference between the two solutions is that a soda ash-based alkalinity supplement will have a tendency to raise your pH when first added (because it will "consume" CO2 as much of it converts to bicarbonate), while the baking soda-based supplement may temporarily depress pH as it releases some CO2 (as it achieves carbonate species equilibrium). In both cases, though, your pH winds up in the same place as the aqueous CO2 balances with atmospheric CO2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 February 16, 2012 Share February 16, 2012 Never used this or made my own formulas but Sam's Club sells a brand called Excel by Scottwood Industries. It's marketed as Excel Snow & Ice Melt pure calcium chloride. You can find it here: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=168352#desc and I believe the spec sheet for it is here: http://www.scotwoodindustries.com/uploads/56/original/Excel_MSDS.pdf?1281365067 From the MSDS: Typical Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) % 94 MIN 94.0 Alkali Chlorides (as NaCl) % 5 MAX 4.0 Magnesium (as MgCl2) % 0.02 MAX 0.01 Other impurities (except moisture) % 0.20 MAX Not sure how this measures up against other ones but the 50 lb bucket is pretty cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country February 16, 2012 Share February 16, 2012 Never used this or made my own formulas but Sam's Club sells a brand called Excel by Scottwood Industries. It's marketed as Excel Snow & Ice Melt pure calcium chloride. You can find it here: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=168352#desc and I believe the spec sheet for it is here: http://www.scotwoodindustries.com/uploads/56/original/Excel_MSDS.pdf?1281365067 From the MSDS: Typical Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) % 94 MIN 94.0 Alkali Chlorides (as NaCl) % 5 MAX 4.0 Magnesium (as MgCl2) % 0.02 MAX 0.01 Other impurities (except moisture) % 0.20 MAX Not sure how this measures up against other ones but the 50 lb bucket is pretty cheap... Sounds like a good substitute, might want to send that link and info to RHF and see what he says. Harvey Salt in Baltimore for Dead Sea Works MagFlake The Anne Arundel Co-Op, which is also a Southern States, right around the corner from House of Tropicals has a good supply of DSW MagFlake, it's where I got my bag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 16, 2012 Share February 16, 2012 Never used this or made my own formulas but Sam's Club sells a brand called Excel by Scottwood Industries. It's marketed as Excel Snow & Ice Melt pure calcium chloride. You can find it here: http://www.samsclub.com/sams/shop/product.jsp?productId=168352#desc and I believe the spec sheet for it is here: http://www.scotwoodindustries.com/uploads/56/original/Excel_MSDS.pdf?1281365067 From the MSDS: Typical Calcium Chloride (CaCl2) % 94 MIN 94.0 Alkali Chlorides (as NaCl) % 5 MAX 4.0 Magnesium (as MgCl2) % 0.02 MAX 0.01 Other impurities (except moisture) % 0.20 MAX Not sure how this measures up against other ones but the 50 lb bucket is pretty cheap... Technical grade Calcium Chloride is good and should leave little, if any, residue when dissolved. Dave, do you have a bucket of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mando77 February 16, 2012 Author Share February 16, 2012 I saw the Excel Scottwood CC online, but not sure about the 4% Alkali and what that could do. I think in order to get food/pharmaceutical grade CC you need to go directly to the maker or large distrubtor. BRS must have a source they go straight to and they are probably making a fortune in reselling. Not one other aquarium store online does what they do? I find that odd. I think the CC salt melt brands change often and so do the chemicals being put in them so it is hard to keep up with. The Alk and Mag should be easy to keep up with from a DIY, but CC isn't so easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country February 16, 2012 Share February 16, 2012 I saw the Excel Scottwood CC online, but not sure about the 4% Alkali and what that could do. I think in order to get food/pharmaceutical grade CC you need to go directly to the maker or large distrubtor. BRS must have a source they go straight to and they are probably making a fortune in reselling. Not one other aquarium store online does what they do? I find that odd. I think the CC salt melt brands change often and so do the chemicals being put in them so it is hard to keep up with. The Alk and Mag should be easy to keep up with from a DIY, but CC isn't so easy. There are a couple other places that sell food grade additive mixes besides BRS, Buckeye Field Supply sells to the aquarium mkt but I think I checked long ago and their prices were more than BRS, and there used to be a sponsor on here from PA, don't remember his business name, that sold his own packaged additives and salts. I trust that Randy Holmes Farley is the accepted Reef Aquarium expert on DIY aquarium additives, alot of people have been using his recipes for years to save money. If he says Dowflake, Peladow and Prestone Driveway Heat are good for aquariums I trust that he's done the testing so I'm not going to try and find something different that might be fine or might wipe out my tank. My feeling is use exactly what RHF recommends, or pay more and order the stuff from BRS, your choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 February 16, 2012 Share February 16, 2012 http://www.tetrachemicals.com/Index.asp?page_ID=580&skip_frames=&site_ID=8 The brand to use is TETRA, It can be found at some home depo stores. The flake grade is used by some aquarium co and has been used by myself and 1000 of reefers for 4 plus years. They make food grade stuff also. Was at the hd at mr corals and at landsdowne a few years ago never really looked since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country February 16, 2012 Share February 16, 2012 I know the tetra stuff is supposed to be good, but it's even harder to find than Dowflake. If I remember correctly Tetra is the product that everyone went to when there was the big scare about DowFlake having something in it but for the life of me I don't remember what. I just remember hearing about it because back then I was still dumb enough to be dosing with ESV products. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 February 16, 2012 Share February 16, 2012 (edited) Dow stop removing bromine from its products so randy thinks its not a problem if you do regular large water changes. If you dont do them dont use dow except to spike you water change water. Tetra is around at alot of hd but they only get a pallet in most times so it runs out fast. There is a briners grade of tetra that is around for brewers that seems the best to me. The price i found years ago was around brs prices though. I personally used a mix of 50 tetra 25 dow 20brs to save money at first because randy never tested tetra but after so many reefers used tetra i used only tetra. On a large sps only tank i would use the mix to be safe. Edited February 16, 2012 by basser9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 16, 2012 Share February 16, 2012 I've used Tetra, but you have to be careful about what plant it comes out of. The one's from China actually dissolve cleaner (with less residue) than the stuff that comes out of Europe. I don't know if their Louisiana plant has come back fully with Calcium Chloride, though. Katrina knocked them out for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 February 17, 2012 Share February 17, 2012 I think all the tetra is made from hca and limestone but they might of changed there process. I HAD NO PROBLEM WITH THE CHINESE TETRA.....BUT buyer beware. It is really white and clear when mixed but with any non food grade the question is always heavy metal levels. Its a shame one of the local lfs wont get a pallet of the food grade in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman February 17, 2012 Share February 17, 2012 (edited) Frederick Brick Works has had MagFlake out in their yard (around $14 per 50lb bag) and can get DowFlake but you have to ask for it. They usually get a couple pallets for a local snow removal contractor and keep it out of sight. If you ask and they have it, they will sell it to you. Can't hurt to call and ask....I have bought both from them in the past and their stock list still identifies they carry it: http://www.frederickbrickworks.com/documents/LineCard.pdf Edited February 17, 2012 by iceman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buucca February 17, 2012 Share February 17, 2012 Here is what I've been using for a while and I have it shipped to my local Ace store so there's no shipping charges. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4480779&kw=calcium+chloride&origkw=calcium+chloride&searchId=60343633963 http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4480777&kw=magnesium+chloride&origkw=magnesium+chloride&searchId=60343870453 http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2564121&kw=baking+soda&origkw=baking+soda&searchId=60343710733 I purchase a large box of Epsom salts at CVS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 17, 2012 Share February 17, 2012 Here is what I've been using for a while and I have it shipped to my local Ace store so there's no shipping charges. http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4480779&kw=calcium+chloride&origkw=calcium+chloride&searchId=60343633963 http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4480777&kw=magnesium+chloride&origkw=magnesium+chloride&searchId=60343870453 http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2564121&kw=baking+soda&origkw=baking+soda&searchId=60343710733 I purchase a large box of Epsom salts at CVS. Good to hear about the SafeStep Mg. Costco usually gets that in but I didn't want to risk it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 February 18, 2012 Share February 18, 2012 PICKLE CRISP is food grade calcium used for canning and by home brewers. ITS THE STUFF TO USE just need to find a home brewing store that sells large bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country February 18, 2012 Share February 18, 2012 PICKLE CRISP is food grade calcium used for canning and by home brewers. ITS THE STUFF TO USE just need to find a home brewing store that sells large bags. I get the feeling we're trying to pickle our SW tanks, we already use Ms. Wages Pickling Lime in our kalk reactors. I'll have to look this pickle crisp up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 February 20, 2012 Share February 20, 2012 All of the food grade calcium i have seen comes in jars usally sold as pickle crisp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AQUACO February 23, 2012 Share February 23, 2012 (edited) LOL... I found some..........In Europe!! They Ship too http://www.bioaquatek.com/50-balling-salts Edited February 23, 2012 by AQUACO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 February 23, 2012 Share February 23, 2012 There are plenty of shippers of tech/food grade calcium you just need to be able to recieve a pallet of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AQUACO February 23, 2012 Share February 23, 2012 There are plenty of shippers of tech/food grade calcium you just need to be able to recieve a pallet of it. Not that Im lazy, but if you an forward that info to me......I'll see what I can do.. For my information... what is a good price to pay for about 50 pounds of Calcium? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceman February 23, 2012 Share February 23, 2012 Dowflake/TetraChloride has usually been around $14-$18 per 50lb bag, when available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 23, 2012 Share February 23, 2012 Keep in mind, though, that this is not ice-melt, it's food grade so pricing is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astroboy February 24, 2012 Share February 24, 2012 http://reefkeeping.c...2/rhf/index.php Randy shows a bag here from a Home Depot. Have you guys checked your local Lowe's and Home Depot stores? He also mentions a Dead Sea Works product for Magnesium that the Boston Reefers Club got on a group buy. Perhaps we could find the products online from a single company (DSW?) and setup a WAMAS group buy for a pallet full of the bags... Dead Sea Works is sold by Merrifield Nursery in Vienna/Falls Church, 50lbs for maybe $20. It's dirt cheap. According to posts elsewhere on WAMAS, its pure MgCl, which is what you want. You can use a 5:3 ratio of DSW and epson salts to get the correct balance between Mg clorides and Mg sulfates. I've used it for 2.5 years to kill hair algae by upper the Mg in my tank to 1500-1600, no ill effects at all. http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html shows how much to mix up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basser9 February 25, 2012 Share February 25, 2012 http://www.prommel.com/client/pdf/food%20grade.pdf Need a pallet of this stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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