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DIY Salt- Anyone interested in a group build?


DaveS

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Guest thefishman65

One Hydrogen two Oxygen make water (H2O) - isn't that what the fish need :)

 

So which one are you recommending Dave? I usually make 15 gallons are a time, but may start smaller changes. So from my point of view I think 5 gallons size would be great. Will this be too small?

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(edited)

I just looked a little bit at the formulas and from what I can tell, #3 seems like a good start. It doesn't require any additional materials and is just changing the weights from the original recipe.

 

As far as making small batches, it's going to depend on the mixing/grain size problem. If we can get past it, great- throw all the materials in the mixer, mix and pull it out by the bucket.

 

If we don't don't get past the grain size/mixing problem, I am guessing each person may end up weighing out and packaging their own mix individually. I think this means measuring 7 materials for each batch. Not too bad if you are doing 25-50 gallons at a time but....

 

In other words, with all the materials gathered, I don't think we need to worry too much about finding a mixer or dealing with grain size if we package in larger batches. It would be convenient but if you pre-make you change water 20G+ at a time than it's not a big deal. For guys who want to do smaller batches, it would just be up to them. I can drink more beer waiting for my turn with the scales. :cheers:

 

To move this idea forward I'll just throw out some things that need to happen and we can see who can do what. If we get all the tasks covered, we'll be a go.

 

Place to host- I'm very willing but I may not be as central as others

People to gather ingredients- let's get 2-3 volunteers

Scales- we are going to need a few scales. I think 1 bathroom scale, 1 postal scale and one precision scale would be good. Take a look at the table below.

Beer- lots

Anything else?

 

 

 

From the 3rd recipe, I converted to 50 and 20G batches and the the units in grams as well as pounds.

	                1000G (g)50G (g)50G (lbs)20G (g)20G (lbs)   Scale Type
Sodium Chloride		        100000	5000	11	2000	4.4         Bathroom
Magnesium Chloride		28500	1425	3.135	570	1.254       Mailing
Magnesium Sulfate 		15668	783.4	1.72348	313.36	0.689392    Mailing
Calcium Chloride 		4400	220	0.484	88	0.1936      Mailing
Potassium Chloride		2950	147.5	0.3245	59	0.1298      Mailing/Precision
Sodium Bicarbonate		668	33.4	0.07348	13.36	0.029392    Precision
Strontium Chloride		56	2.8	0.00616	1.12	0.002464    Precision

Edited by DaveS
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BTW, the strontium that I used in my calculations was Kents Turbo Strontium (which is anhydrous strontium chloride).

 

For certain scales, considering their sensitivity to sustaining permanent damage to the load sensor from overloading, I suggest that we train people first or staff the scales with experienced people who can weigh ingredients for the others.

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Guest thefishman65

I could also host with the same limitation of central location. I can get some ingredients. Is the Magnesium Chloride the Mag Flake de-icer. If so the Southern States near me had it last year (I think I got my bag in May - they had to dig it out), I had to call over to find it. How many (1000) gallons are we making?

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(edited)

Yes good point on preventing scale damage. Also good point on figuring out how much salt we trying to make.

 

If you want to participate, please state the following:

 

Screen name, what you can help with and how much salt you want to make.

 

Thought of another task: tracking the money and reimbursements (done day of build).

 

BTW, we can always have more people helping with gathering materials. I'm guessing 2+ people and a big truck just to get the Morton's water softener salt.

 

DaveS- Any of the needed tasks, 1000G

Edited by DaveS
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Guest thefishman65

TheFishMan65 gathering stuff or people - 200-400 gallons

 

Another thought/question any idea on price, kind of decides how much I might make? I am in this for the fun, but if significantly cheaper then maybe I do enough to get by until the next party swings around :)

Mag Flake about $18 / 1000 gallons

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I don't have a big truck, but I am willing to be the at least +1 to pick up and cover the morton's salt.

I would want ~200 gallons worth (or a big salt bucket).

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looking at your recipe tells me that the easiest way to mix this stuff is to use the 1000gal recipe. That way you only need a postal scale or something that will measure to the nearest hundredth. 2 decimal places to the right. You'll also have a recipe that's far more forgiving than if you were to make smaller batches. To make a 20, 50, or 100 gal batch, you'll have to be super precise and it's probably not worth the time and hassle for anything less than 1000 gal.

You're also going to need a very large mixing apparatus that can handle some extreme weight. You can't have any moisture present because it will cause clumping and won't mix the ingredients thoroughly.

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Sounds like fun. I would love to get into this. maybe a way to get actively back into WAMAS even though I dont have my tank yet. If it helps and someone gives me a list of the chemicals I can speak with Univar and see what they have in larger bags. We can split the cost among whoever wants to join in.

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Where are all the major and minor trace elements? I believe that you need them especially if you're running a reef tank. This coarse salt mix might be great for hardy fishes, but might prove too harsh for reef denizens.

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If you want to participate, please state the following:

 

Screen name, what you can help with and how much salt you want to make.

 

Thought of another task: tracking the money and reimbursements (done day of build).

 

BTW, we can always have more people helping with gathering materials. I'm guessing 2+ people and a big truck just to get the Morton's water softener salt.

 

I can take 4 5-gallon buckets of mix. I have no idea how many gallons of water that will make (I'm going to guess 800-ish?) but I have to base my take on what will fit in the very limited storage space I have.

 

I can also help with pickup - My 4Runner can take about 1000# over the rear axle. I can do 4000# in a trailer if someone has one to loan.

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Place to host- I'm very willing but I may not be as central as others

 

You may not be as central, but you probably have more physical space than most. So I'll still vote for your place.

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Where are all the major and minor trace elements? I believe that you need them especially if you're running a reef tank. This coarse salt mix might be great for hardy fishes, but might prove too harsh for reef denizens.

 

Read the entire thread man! Last line of the full recipe. :happy:

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Sounds like fun. I would love to get into this. maybe a way to get actively back into WAMAS even though I dont have my tank yet. If it helps and someone gives me a list of the chemicals I can speak with Univar and see what they have in larger bags. We can split the cost among whoever wants to join in.

 

Great to see you getting back involved. One possibility is to try and order Salt and MG by the pallet instead of going to HD. Can you poke around to see what you can obtain for us? If I host (which is likely) I can accept delivery and hold before the build date.

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i have an open aluminum trailer that someone could borrow or i could drive with my car if needs be (i should be avialable though the 1st birthday party is coming up). (its 8x22ft with d rings for tiedowns ut it is open with no sides)

as long as it could be tied down it would be no problem, i think the trialer holds 4k plus

 

i think i will wait for the second round as i have too much stuff on my plate, glad to see you guys trying new stuff though.

Edited by Der ABT
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I can take 4 5-gallon buckets of mix. I have no idea how many gallons of water that will make (I'm going to guess 800-ish?) but I have to base my take on what will fit in the very limited storage space I have.

 

I can also help with pickup - My 4Runner can take about 1000# over the rear axle. I can do 4000# in a trailer if someone has one to loan.

 

 

Two to the salt crew.

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Great to see you getting back involved. One possibility is to try and order Salt and MG by the pallet instead of going to HD. Can you poke around to see what you can obtain for us? If I host (which is likely) I can accept delivery and hold before the build date.

 

If you can tell me exactly what you guys want I can see what I can get and the cost. I cant have it deliverd to a residents because they wont do it. I generally get it sent to my distributor and I can pick it up. What type of salt are we looking to get? I am sure this is a stupid question, but I am not a chemist as I often feel half the WAMAS members are.

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i have an open aluminum trailer that someone could borrow or i could drive with my car if needs be (i should be avialable though the 1st birthday party is coming up). (its 8x22ft with d rings for tiedowns ut it is open with no sides)

as long as it could be tied down it would be no problem, i think the trialer holds 4k plus

 

i think i will wait for the second round as i have too much stuff on my plate, glad to see you guys trying new stuff though.

 

That trailer will work. I have all the tiedowns, but my trailer stayed behind when I moved into the city.

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If you can tell me exactly what you guys want I can see what I can get and the cost. I cant have it deliverd to a residents because they wont do it.

 

If you need a loading dock for deliveries, you can use the one at my place of work.

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I will try and call univar today and see what costs are associated for less then pallet and full pallet and we can go from their. When we are looking at salt specifically what type of salt am I asking for. As for magnesium is their a specific type I am asking for as well?

 

zygote: Where is the loading dock? That shouldn't be a problem.

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(edited)

I will try and call univar today and see what costs are associated for less then pallet and full pallet and we can go from their. When we are looking at salt specifically what type of salt am I asking for. As for magnesium is their a specific type I am asking for as well?

 

zygote: Where is the loading dock? That shouldn't be a problem.

 

I have a loading dock at my office in Tyson's. Rob's may be closer to my place (assuming we do it there). Obviously the most convenient would be to drop off at where we do the mixing- Sean/F&F???. Otherwise we still need to deal with transport. Maybe there will be some cost savings to justify it.

 

Dave- as far as what specific ingredients, please take a look at the URL in the first post. The fact that all the ingredients we were looking to use are available at local hardware/supply stores made it good. Tom's formulations and other people's positive experiences are based on these materials. I think it would be safer and easier to stick with them if possible. If you can help get the same cheaper that's great. If not, we may stick with Home Depot/Lowe's. Their margins are usually pretty low anyways but delivery to mixing location (if we can find one) would be a bonus.

 

 

Here's the latest volunteer list:

 

DaveS- Any of the needed tasks (probably hosting), 1000G

TheFishMan65- gathering stuff or people - 200-400G

Chad- help with picking up materials, ~200G

dschflier- help getting materials, ?G

Brian Ward- help getting materials (w/trailer), ~800G

 

Anyone else want to confirm? A few others expressed interest initially but haven't mentioned anything recently. We need to get our hands on some postal and precision scales (which we will promise to take care of).

Edited by DaveS
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I've got calibrated precision scales and calibration weights. 1) 200g limit, 0.01g accuracy, and 2) 500 g limit, 0.1g accuracy

 

I've also got a 70# digital postal scale, but don't have calibration weights with it (but I can probably check it against a calibrated commercial scale at a deli). It has 1 gram resolution in kg/g mode.

 

I probably won't make any salt mix, but could help out with the effort as needed. (e.g. I could study the effects of beer on precision weighing.)

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Guest thefishman65

Dave big problem. I don't think we can do beer. I think it has to be Margaritas :)

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Dave big problem. I don't think we can do beer. I think it has to be Margaritas :)

Hmmm... a multivariate problem. Tougher to solve, but definitely doable.

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About the 70# scale: I'm encouraged. It's from Harbor Freight Tools and, so, I didn't have a whole lot of confidence that it would be that accurate. However, just to check it out with what calibration weights I did have, I put 895 grams on it and I'll be darned if it didn't read 895 grams. 500 grams on the scale and it was dead on. 100 grams, same result. I still need to check it for heavier weights, but it's a pretty good little scale overall.

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