Mr. Coral does it again!

[DaveS]

All,

 

As you all know, Mr. Coral is a somewhat controversial vendor. Every few months you see someone posting an unfavorable review for him and an ensuing flame war. As an outsider, they usually sounded like some kind of misunderstanding or mistake. As a longtime member of WAMAS, I read the threads and tried to remain impartial. I was however a little bit concerned because these disputes were often with long term, reasonable WAMAS members. Nonetheless I could see Mr. Coral

[DaveS]

Next day I

[DaveS]

A few days go by...

 

#20 MC: Your package went out today.

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#22 Me: I noticed. If I got the reminder email yesterday i would have asked youto hold as I'm catching a flight out for work again. Hope it gets here in time for my 11 flight...

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#23 MC: You should of emailed me

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#24 Me: You said you send out emails the day before letting people know a shipmment will go out. You did that last time. Do you only ship out on Mondays?

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#25 MC: Monday---Wed

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#26 Me: So I didn't have so say anything last week mon tue or wed but I was suppopsed to tell you this week?

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#27 MC: THIS IS THE EMAIL U GOT SUNDAY NIGHT. GOOD NIGHT DAVID

Mr. Coral to dsun show details Sep 12 (1 day ago)

Hello, this is Sonny from MrCoral.com. I hope you having a great day today. Just want to touch base with you. Your Corals will go out Monday for Tuesday FedEX. With the weather you have to make sure this package gets in your tank right away. Send me an email if this is an issue by 10 Am Monday.

Thanks

Mr. Coral

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NOTE: CHECKED INBOX AND SPAM FILTERS. EMAIL NEVER RECEIVED. COULD BE AN HONEST MISTAKE OR EMAIL FAILURE

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#28 Me: Got the frags and acclimated them. Couple of bags smelled bad. I think the blue/gold acan is gone. Will let you know how things rebound after my trip.

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#29 MC: I need pics right away if something did not make it.

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#30 Me: Sonny,

 

Just got back from my business trip. Here's a pic of the two corals with bags that smelled... The acan continues to look pretty rough too. LMK what your thoughts are on this.

 

Thanks.

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NOTE: NO REPLY

[DaveS]

I go on my 2 day business trip and return.

 

#31 Me: Hi Sonny,

 

No thoughts on this?

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#32 MC: Sorry Sonny is not here. I will pass this on.

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NOTE: NO REPLY

 

PLACED ANOTHER ORDER

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#33 MC: Hello, this is Sonny from MrCoral.com. I hope you having a great day today. Just want to touch base with you. Your Corals will go out Monday for Tuesday delivery with FedEX. With the weather you have to make sure this package gets in your tank right away. Send me an email if this is an issue by 12pm Mon.

Thanks

Mr. Coral

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#34 Me: Sonny,

 

When can I expect a refund for the cancelled shipments and coral that died?

Thanks.

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#35 MC: The payments we did not take from paypal? You have not gotten that back? If not I can go back and take the funds and refund back. What coral died?

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#36 Me: No, my money continues to sit in limbo after 2 months.

 

The Ice Fire Enchinata frag I ordered RTNed and it was never sent, nor did a replacement show. I also lost 2 Acro frags during shipping. I sent you email about that weeks ago with no response.

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#37 MC: David, I will go back and see if I can still accept the payments. You might have to call paypal on it if I can't. Please don't make it my fault we did not take your money for the orders. The Ice Fire I have you a large Frag at the farm. Did you send me pics on the other 2 items?

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#38 Me: Sorry but you are merchant, you selected the vendor to work with. Is it my fault? Why should I need to contact you multiple times over the course of months to get my money back? You said you would refund me for the Ice Fire so please do that. And yes, I did send you pics on the other 2.

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#39 MC: What is your fault to tell you the truth is you not following the rules over and over. Is that my fault? I just tried to accept one of those payments and it will not work. When did you send these pics? Our website states we need pics within a few hours of getting your order. Did you do this? I really tired of being blame for things that you did. I will refund you for the Ice fire but that is it. Do not order from us again. I have already ask you and you keep doing it. NO MORE. You were trying to take advantage of us and others why would someone do that? I really don't want to do business with someone like that. The Limit ones are for everyone not one greedy person who want to break the rules over and over you should know better. Then you blame me for you trying to do this and me not taken your money? What is this April Fools Day? Call paypal and you deal with your mistakes.

 

Going to bed.

 

Your last order will be shipped Monday and I repeat do not order again from us.

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#40 Me: Please, your rules are not clear not uniformly enforced. I'm not the only one that made this mistake.

 

Have fun with this Sonny, I know I will!

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#41 MC: It's pretty clear David if you can read. I know you are a smart guy you always tell me how I should run my business so that should not be a problem for you. You are a very educated person I think you knew what you were doing. It's really OK I just do not want to do business with you anymore. You are the only one David that did it over and over and over again!! Send me a money request for the Ice fire to mrcoral@gmail.com and I will take care of it.

 

Good night

 

Sonny

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#42 Me: Over an over? What are you talking about? I made one $20 order that was less than the minimum- YOUR system accepted the order instead of rejecting it before my money got tied up. It wasn't until AFTER we talked about the limit 1 issue that you clarified your rules to mean Limit 1 EVER, not limit 1 on an order or only 1 limit 1 per order. Is wasn't just me that made the mistake.

 

It is not my responsibility to initiate a money request to get my money back. You can figure it out. I'm sure they taught you how to refund money when you got that UMD MBA that's hanging on your wall.

[DaveS]

After the above exchange, I initiated a Paypal dispute on my unfulfilled orders. RECEIVED EMAIL RESPONSE WITH DIFFERENT TONE WITHIN MINUTES

 

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#43 MC: What is it you are saying needs to be put back into your account?

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#44 Me: You have the receipts and records. At least I would hope so given your accusations of taking advantage of you and being greedy.

 

I'm taking a page from the MC Book of business- "you deal with your mistakes."

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#45 MC: calling paypal now.

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#46 MC: David they are telling me the money should be back in your account

Here is what I got. What are you getting when you put these ### in your account?

 

Aug 27, 2010 Authorization From XXXX Expired Details Authorization From XXXX $40.00 $0.00 $40.00 USD

 

Aug 26, 2010 Authorization From XXXX Expired Details Authorization From XXXX $20.00 $0.00 $20.00 USD

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#47 MC: As you can notice they say Expired on them.

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#48 Me: I'll wait until my balance is updated to reflect the reversal before closing the book on those two. The Ice Fire Enchinata refund is still outstanding.

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#49 MC: You are doing paypal Claims for item you got not for the items below that are Expired. Can I ask you why you did that?

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#50 Me: First of all you told me to- "Call paypal and you deal with your mistakes."

 

Second, from what I can tell, those are the 2 orders where I supposedly was a "greedy person" and "trying to take advantage of us and others". There was only one $20 order and the $40 was the same day. If these aren't the 2 orders, it's still $60 so I'm fine with those refunds. Contrary to your accusations, I'm not a greedy person. I just want to be taken care of by those I spend my money with not be treated like a liar when their rules and systems are inconsistent.

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#51 MC: Now you are trying to comment Bank Fraud. You are doing paypal claim on items that have been sent to you. Not the items that were Expired. Now you are trying to take money for items we did send you. Why did you not do paypal claims on the items that we expired?

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#52 MC: Also, until you take care of this. We can't take a chance and send your other order.

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#53 Me: Stop with the ridiculous accusations. I'll be happy to withdrawl the $40 dispute once I verify it was not the right one. As I go back and look at the records, I see that there was were two $20 transaction that weren't refunded so that one is definitely correct.

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#54 Me: Oh yea while we're at it, I didn't even get raffle tickets for the last shipment of frags. Not that I'm that worried about it since I never hear about the actual drawings at the end of the month... Haha!

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#55 Me: Still haven't seen the refund for the Ice fire that you agreed to.

[DaveS]

No response to the above so I initiate contact again.

 

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#56 Me: ???

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#57 MC: David, what did I tell you to do?

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#58 Me: You said you would refund me for the ice fire and to contact PayPal to deal with the rest. Exactly what I did! Now your turn.

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NOTE: NO RESPONSE

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#59 5Me: Still no answer???

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#60 MC: What do you mean still no answer?

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#61 Me: Still no refund for the ice fire yet.

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#62 MC: I ask you to send me a money request.

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#63 Me: Just send the money to my account. Why do I need to make a request??

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#64 MC: Please send a money request to mrcoral@gmail.com

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#65 Me: Send the $39.95 to XXXX@yahoo.com!

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#66 MC: XXXX@yahoo.com! IS THIS YOUR CORRECT PAYPAL? Not working for us.

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#67 Me: It's this email address!

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#68 MC: I see I copy and paste what you sent me and it had the

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NOTE: I receive the refund less a few dollars for PayPal transaction costs. Clearly I

[DaveS]

Other facts of interest:

 

1) The $20 minimum order is not enforced by his site, transactions less than his minimum will be accepted and money taken. Cancellation notices don

[flowerseller]

Dave,

why you keep going through this over and over?

[luceneck]

No matter what went on, if you two were conversing over email or PM, it is not respectful to post someone's discussion without permission.

 

http://www.wamas.org/about.php#Etiquette

 

Rule #2:

# Open to Guests (read-only), BB Members and WAMAS Members may read and post.

# No posting of sales, Want to Buy, Free, For Trade or similar transactions. Members leaving the hobby may be granted a one-time exception to post a single thread listing all items available for sale or donation.

# Absolutely no posting of personal information (e.g. phone numbers, email addresses, excerpts of email and PM discussions) of other members.

[DaveS]

Dave,

why you keep going through this over and over?

 

Chip,

 

What are you talking about??? I have never mentioned this before. Confusing me with another customer sharing their experience?

 

Lucency, I did remove any personal information but good point. I could just paraphrase my experience but that would be even more controversial. I'm trying just to stick provide facts. If MC wants to request removal on the grounds of etiquette we can go that route. Alternatively, a url to this content hosted elsewhere shouldnt be a violation.

Edited December 17, 2010 by DaveS

[Reefn]

FWIW -

 

I've purchased about $1,000 worth of coral from Mr. Coral over the past few years - never had a problem. Some in-store, some on-line. I'll use him again.

 

Keith

[Vadim]

luceneck-

 

I think this situation is a little different. Customer dealing with a business, Customer has disputes and is just posting how unreliable the business is with proof. I will say that if Dave posted without reliable proof. People on here would ask for it probably.

[flowerseller]

No confusion, probably just linking to to other stuff in other posts or in her discussions.

I know I've heard of this many before whether through reports or discussion.

Just askin, it seems like you keep putting yourself through this same ordeal from August.

I've not had problems with MC and what I've gotten has done quite well so I can't honestly relate to your experience.

Maybe I don't understand the purpose of this because I been working 70+ hours a week this month.

 

On another note,

if PP is tied to a debit card, that's most likely your problem if you check your debit card account online every day.

If this sounds like you , I can explain AFTER xmas .

[Coral Hind]

This is the first thread from Dave I have seen regarding this issue. I know over the last year I have heard similar stories from other WAMAS members. After reading the whole exchange of conversations it seems this whole thing should have been ironed out months ago by Mr. Coral following through with putting the money back on Dave's card. Plain and simple.

 

I went to the store once over a year ago and a shell game was played at the counter while ringing up the frag bags. First it was over by $50, then by $30. It wasn't until the third try that it seemed right and I agreed. I still walked out the door wondering if I had just gotten taken or not.

 

Now it seems I am personally banned from posting anything in his forum because I asked how big a coral frag was. Instead of a 1/2" or 1" answer I got a PM telling me to stay off his forum and my post was deleted. I guess he doesn't want us to know the actual size. I then asked for a clearification on his shipping which was unclear as normal and the responded was my post being deleted.

 

I'm glad some people are having great experiences there but I just don't get the customer satisfaction or trust factor I was looking for from a vendor.

[davidm]

I am VERY glad Dave posted this. MC is a trek for me, and although I've never bought anything there, I have been thinking about it lately, especially with some time off around now. Obviously I will have to seriously re-think that. I don't see how this posting is any different from asking a neighbor about their window installation went, or checking reviews on Amazon for a gift. thanks for posting this in a very tranparent (but long) post Dave.

[Mando77]

These guys got nice stuff, but they are a hassle to work with. They never give you a clear answer. I makes you wonder or think if these guys work for the Redskins?

[BowieReefer84]

"#37 MC: David, I will go back and see if I can still accept the payments. You might have to call paypal on it if I can't. Please don't make it my fault we did not take your money for the orders. The Ice Fire I have you a large Frag at the farm. Did you send me pics on the other 2 items?"

 

I want an update on the farm. That thread has been dormant for a long time.

[L8 2 RISE]

EDIT...Bad Conscience, nicer version:

 

My problem with MC as is shown in these e-mails and elsewhere on the boards is that he does not care about his customers or his livestock, it's all about the money for him.

 

Also, I second Bowie!

Edited December 17, 2010 by L8 2 RISE

[ErikS]

I am VERY glad Dave posted this. MC is a trek for me, and although I've never bought anything there, I have been thinking about it lately, especially with some time off around now. Obviously I will have to seriously re-think that. I don't see how this posting is any different from asking a neighbor about their window installation went, or checking reviews on Amazon for a gift. thanks for posting this in a very tranparent (but long) post Dave.

Amen! IMHO it kind of defeats the purpose of this section or forums if one doesn't or can't post some issues encountered along the way.

[DaveS]

No confusion, probably just linking to to other stuff in other posts or in her discussions.

I know I've heard of this many before whether through reports or discussion.

Just askin, it seems like you keep putting yourself through this same ordeal from August.

I've not had problems with MC and what I've gotten has done quite well so I can't honestly relate to your experience.

Maybe I don't understand the purpose of this because I been working 70+ hours a week this month.

 

On another note,

if PP is tied to a debit card, that's most likely your problem if you check your debit card account online every day.

If this sounds like you , I can explain AFTER xmas .

 

Chip,

 

Regarding PayPal, no it wasn't a debit card, the cash was already sitting idle in my account (which is why I used PP to begin with). You can see from #46 that within minutes of me filing a dispute, he refunded the money.

 

Regarding your other question, you may have heard about this previously either from me or through general conversation back when I was having these problems. I refrained from posting then because I wanted to give Mr. Coral EVERY possible opportunity to do what he said he would. Now that a couple of credit card statements have passed, I'm pretty sure I know where it stands.

 

You are right in asking why I would want to put myself through this ordeal again. I compiled the data in October and just had it sitting there (waiting as mentioned above) and basically forgot about it as work got busy. I was cleaning out some files and came across it again. I actually had my finger on the delete button as I am pretty much over it now. Then I thought a little more about it- who would be hurt by posting it and who would be hurt by deleting it? I don't care either way any more- $50 is not a big deal to me.

 

But in the end I realized that the ones who would be hurt by my deleting this are WAMAS members and the organization itself. The whole idea of WAMAS is to HELP the hobbyist. We have even been granted 501©3 status by the federal government in recognition of this mission. To me, deleting this kind of information and keeping it private only helps bad vendors and hurts members by allowing them to make the same mistakes I made. If I knew ahead of time that Toyota had brake problems and allowed my family to buy one without saying anything, what kind of person would I be?

 

I think I know what Mr. Coral may say- "You're out to hurt my business. You are part of a larger effort by other LFSs to undermine my business." He's had the same rhetoric in other threads and he even mentions it in our email exchanges. THAT IS NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS THREAD.

 

I have no affiliation with any LFS and the purpose of this thread is only to provide accurate and truthful information. To that end, I will ask that EVERYONE do the same thing. Let's keep pure opinion and speculation out of this thread, we have had plenty of others doing that. Obviously if you have something to share, go ahead but please do it factually. I am hoping that by my and anyone else keeping the hyperbole out of this, Mr. Coral will also do the same should he choose to respond.

[flowerseller]

These threads are fine and informative and the only time they become a problem is when people start flaming.

 

I was simply wondering why DaveS, a friend of mine, appeared to be going back for more, several times, and always got the same result.

[lanman]

Interesting, but very confusing concerning the PayPal stuff.

 

I have had no bad experiences with Mr. Coral, but I generally just drive up, even though it's over an hour. I'm kind of a hands-on guy. The 3-4 orders I've placed for shipment have been handled well, and the frags have done well. In fact, I will soon be fragging some of the "Japanese" zoanthids that I purchased mail order.

 

bob

[FearTheTerps]

All,As you all know, Mr. Coral is a somewhat controversial vendor. Every few months you see someone posting an unfavorable review for him and an ensuing flame war. As an outsider, they usually sounded like some kind of misunderstanding or mistake. As a longtime member of WAMAS, I read the threads and tried to remain impartial. I was however a little bit concerned because these disputes were often with long term, reasonable WAMAS members. Nonetheless I could see Mr. Coral

[Gilbert]

I've visited Mr. Coral a total of 4 times. In the beginning the in store selections were awesome and a lot of variety, but the last couple of times I've been in there when they just got their "new frags" and they were lacking on selection for the in store purchases, their online frag selections are a lot better then what they have in store, also this last visit I purchased 10 frags for $100 total, well when we walk over to the counter Sonny rings up $116.87 for my total. $16.87 on taxes is pretty high don't ya'll think? other than that, they have great frags just a pain to deal with.

[Coral Hind]

Did you ask him why the difference?