zygote2k November 6, 2010 Share November 6, 2010 After 6 months of use, the bio pellets are finally starting to work as promised. I started off with N03 in the 35-40 range when I changed my system over. I use a bag in the high flow area of the sump that tumbles around and I also use some in a fluidized bed. As of today the N03 is down to 8ppm. I guess not having a skimmer isn't an issue with the pellets. If the BP's take 6 months to get established, then that would mean that you could filter a new tank solely on a fuge system until the BP's become active. This might be what's needed for those little Aquapod tanks to really perform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad November 7, 2010 Share November 7, 2010 Are you sure it is not coincidental? It may just be that I dont understand the mechanism that would remove the nitrates in a bacteria driven scenario without a protein skimmer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 7, 2010 Author Share November 7, 2010 I think it's fairly obvious that the fuge is doing the same work as a skimmer. If there's another reason, it's beyond my comprehension or it's just coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad November 7, 2010 Share November 7, 2010 I agree that processing by detrivores and utilization by plants of nitrates and phosphates can replace the work a skimmer does. However, all the the carbon dosing info assumes that a skimmer removes N and P by removing the bacteria. I dont understand how carbon dosing can work without a HUGE (and precarious balance) of filter feeders. What do you have in the way of filter feeders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 7, 2010 Author Share November 7, 2010 I don't have any. Sure- there are some feather dusters, but nothing significant. Maybe what people think about how these systems work is flawed. Everyone says that you need a skimmer to process the biofilm that comes off the pellets. Apparently the fuge processes the stuff just fine. They also said that the pellets would be consumed within 6 months; I think it will take at least a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecsavi November 7, 2010 Share November 7, 2010 I am wondering if the corals could be consuming the bacteria as well, much like in a Zeo system? Just curious, what are your phosphates looking like? I have read several posts where nitrates are consumed to undetectable levels but there is still that lingering amount of phosphate. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 7, 2010 Author Share November 7, 2010 The last time I checked P04, there wasn't any to be detected. I have 90% SPS and a few sinularias, leathers, shrooms, zoas. 3 Clams too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 November 7, 2010 Share November 7, 2010 All of the livestock that you have consumes bacteria, too. Rob, did you ever see a bacterial bloom with cloudy water? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore November 7, 2010 Share November 7, 2010 What about sponges? I think they consume significant quantities of bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 7, 2010 Author Share November 7, 2010 I do have some rocks that are covered in sponge that live in the sump. The only bacteria bloom I encountered was cyano bacteria. I even poured tons of MB7 in to quell the outbreak, but it didn't realy do anything. Never experienced cloudy water either. I still have some trace amounts of cyano in low flow areas, but nothing that is too hard to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 November 7, 2010 Share November 7, 2010 I'm wondering if your system is simply in balance and it's not actually the biopellets. Is this the same one where your macro had stopped growing and you removed the GFO for phosphates? My biopellets are not working very well but I think that might have something to do with how I'm using them. I need to dump out the reactor they're in and switch it out with another. They are not tumbling and I think they may even have fused together... I also have not had a bloom in my tank and never saw any cloudy water, but again, I think that's user error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad November 7, 2010 Share November 7, 2010 I wonder the same thing about reaching a balance. I had forgotten about the macro growth, how is it these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 7, 2010 Author Share November 7, 2010 (edited) still growing. stopped using GFO too. got 11 fish, and 4 shrimps and feed heavily. got a little low ph- 7.86, 4.5 alk, 380 ca, 330 ORP. Corals are still growing. Edited November 7, 2010 by zygote2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad November 7, 2010 Share November 7, 2010 What about this theory as why your nitrates are down now: You removed the GFO in July which meant your macro growth was no longer phosphate limited. Macro started to grow and use up the nitrates and the phosphates in the system, which ends up with much lower phospates after three months of macro growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Grenier November 8, 2010 Share November 8, 2010 (edited) Rob & folks, What brand of Biopellets are you using? Do you believe it's OK to mix Biopellets and carbon in the same reactor? Edited November 8, 2010 by Larry Grenier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad November 8, 2010 Share November 8, 2010 oops, I made a mistake in my reply, this is what I meant. What about this theory as why your nitrates are down now: You removed the GFO in July which meant your macro growth was no longer phosphate limited. Macro started to grow and use up the nitrates and the phosphates in the system, which ends up with much lower phospates nitrates after three months of macro growth. And the effect has nothing to do with the biopellets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 8, 2010 Author Share November 8, 2010 What about this theory as why your nitrates are down now: You removed the GFO in July which meant your macro growth was no longer phosphate limited. Macro started to grow and use up the nitrates and the phosphates in the system, which ends up with much lower phospates after three months of macro growth. entirely possible- only way to prove it would be to remove the bio pellets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 8, 2010 Author Share November 8, 2010 Rob & folks, What brand of Biopellets are you using? Do you believe it's OK to mix Biopellets and carbon in the same reactor? I'm using Polycaprolactone pellets. I don't know what brand name they are, but I don't think they're much different than of the rest on the market. I wouldn't mix any media- keep them seperated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind November 8, 2010 Share November 8, 2010 Do you believe it's OK to mix Biopellets and carbon in the same reactor? You would have to disturb the biopellets to change out the carbon on a monthly basis. Plus fresh carbon can lower the pH in the reator which might affect the bacteria negatively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Grenier November 8, 2010 Share November 8, 2010 I asked about brand because there are several: NP-Reducing by Eddid Van Halen I mean D. van Houten, Vertex, Brightwell Aquatics' Katalyst... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tecsavi November 9, 2010 Share November 9, 2010 I have read that the bacteria growing on the pellets consumes nitrates and phoshates in an uneven ratio. Something like 1 part nitrate to 10 parts phosphate. Thus a reason why a lot of people (including me, .03ppm Hanna) have lingering low phophate levels once their nitrates are 0ppm. Is it possible that your macro are consuming these two in a more equal ratio and are able to consume your phospates down to 0? Did you see an increase in macro growth after the removal of GFO? Do you still see that same amout of growth now that both levels are 0? In any case I wouldn't change a thing you are doing. It sounds like you have achieved that illusive goal of having balance. Good to hear posive results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 9, 2010 Author Share November 9, 2010 I asked about brand because there are several: NP-Reducing by Eddid Van Halen I mean D. van Houten, Vertex, Brightwell Aquatics' Katalyst... look to see what they are made of- I use Polycaprolactone; there are other types of this plastic that are called biopellets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k November 9, 2010 Author Share November 9, 2010 I have read that the bacteria growing on the pellets consumes nitrates and phoshates in an uneven ratio. Something like 1 part nitrate to 10 parts phosphate. Thus a reason why a lot of people (including me, .03ppm Hanna) have lingering low phophate levels once their nitrates are 0ppm. Is it possible that your macro are consuming these two in a more equal ratio and are able to consume your phospates down to 0? Did you see an increase in macro growth after the removal of GFO? Do you still see that same amout of growth now that both levels are 0? In any case I wouldn't change a thing you are doing. It sounds like you have achieved that illusive goal of having balance. Good to hear posive results. I guess I can take the bio pellets off line and see if there is any significant change in N or P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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