DaveS April 26, 2011 Share April 26, 2011 Ok all this talk about LEDs got me motivated! I too got a bunch of goodies in thefishman65's $10,000 GB. They have been sitting around for a while but with all this talk, I decided to goof off today and do something about it. Went to Radio Shack, bought wire, solder, and other supplies. So I didn't crank out a full fixture in one afternoon but what I did make was a test environment. My current plan is a ratio of 2:1 XP-E RB to 1 XP-G CW LEDs. So I got a little piece of heatsink and mounted 1 CW between 2 RBs and 65 degree optics on everything. Nothing dimmed, both all LEDs on the same circuit, LEDs 15" above the water. I didn't tinker around with things too much but here are some initial observations. 1) the CW LED is brighter than the RB. PAR meter said 120 vs. 80 with no lens and ~10 inches away. Forget the absolute number but just note that the RB is 2/3 the PAR of the CW. Using just a ratio of 1:1, the resulting light is fairly white. Some people may like it, others may prefer more blue. I would say it's around a 10-12K color. 2) With just two LEDs 3" apart and 65 deg optics, I didn't see too much spotlighting. It was there but nothing major. Keeping in mind that this is just 2 LEDs and that they would normally be an array of them with colors alternating. I'm starting to believe that 3" spacing isn't too far and that I could do closer if needed. 3) The lenses don't stay on very well. Had one fall off into my tank... Going to have to figure out a better solution for that. There are probably other observations I can make tomorrow. Also, I'll have this setup going for another day so if anyone wants to stop by and look at tomorrow, just shoot me a PM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 April 26, 2011 Share April 26, 2011 Realize that the PAR meter (assuming an apogee sensor) only counts about 70% of the blue light. If you look at the web you can find the response curve for an Apogee sensor (which one I am not sure), but they vary by 10% (daylight vs electric). Also realize that the white has an awful lot of blue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward April 26, 2011 Share April 26, 2011 Ok all this talk about LEDs got me motivated! I too got a bunch of goodies in thefishman65's $10,000 GB. They have been sitting around for a while but with all this talk, I decided to goof off today and do something about it. Went to Radio Shack, bought wire, solder, and other supplies. So I didn't crank out a full fixture in one afternoon but what I did make was a test environment. My current plan is a ratio of 2:1 XP-E RB to 1 XP-G CW LEDs. So I got a little piece of heatsink and mounted 1 CW between 2 RBs and 65 degree optics on everything. Nothing dimmed, both all LEDs on the same circuit, LEDs 15" above the water. I didn't tinker around with things too much but here are some initial observations. 1) the CW LED is brighter than the RB. PAR meter said 120 vs. 80 with no lens and ~10 inches away. Forget the absolute number but just note that the RB is 2/3 the PAR of the CW. Using just a ratio of 1:1, the resulting light is fairly white. Some people may like it, others may prefer more blue. I would say it's around a 10-12K color. 2) With just two LEDs 3" apart and 65 deg optics, I didn't see too much spotlighting. It was there but nothing major. Keeping in mind that this is just 2 LEDs and that they would normally be an array of them with colors alternating. I'm starting to believe that 3" spacing isn't too far and that I could do closer if needed. 3) The lenses don't stay on very well. Had one fall off into my tank... Going to have to figure out a better solution for that. There are probably other observations I can make tomorrow. Also, I'll have this setup going for another day so if anyone wants to stop by and look at tomorrow, just shoot me a PM. Based on what I'm hearing, I don't think optics are necessary at all. I think you'll get more than enough PAR and better color blending without optics. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyD April 26, 2011 Share April 26, 2011 I don't think optics are necessary either. I tried them and took them off. I like the color blend better with no optics. My tank depth is 28" and the LEDs reach down to that depth just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward April 26, 2011 Share April 26, 2011 I don't think optics are necessary either. I tried them and took them off. I like the color blend better with no optics. My tank depth is 28" and the LEDs reach down to that depth just fine. Awesome. Thanks for the insight! I think I'd be better off to do a denser array with no optics as opposed to using optics. I got budget approved based on expected electric bill savings and decreased heat in the basement I'm planning to do the lights over my main tank first and then I'll do the ones over my frag tank. What are people using as splash guards? I'm thinking about building an open-top box with clear acrylic on the bottom and black acrylic around the sides. The board with the LEDs would sit at the top of the box with the heatsink sticking out of the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS April 26, 2011 Share April 26, 2011 I don't think optics are necessary either. I tried them and took them off. I like the color blend better with no optics. My tank depth is 28" and the LEDs reach down to that depth just fine. How high above the tank are your LEDs and how much spill over of the lights to you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad April 26, 2011 Share April 26, 2011 Are you guys planning on using a microcontroller? I am thinking of doing an LED build this summer but fiddle with the controller in more of the near-term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyD April 27, 2011 Share April 27, 2011 How high above the tank are your LEDs and how much spill over of the lights to you have? 5" above the water. There's a bit of spill over. I have a 10" wide heatsink so it's a broad spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 I'm looking at using the meanwell drivers for the LEDs, so I'm looking at how to drive the fans for the heatsink. It looks like 1 extra meanwell driver can be used, you can dial the voltage down to 12V and wire all the fans in parallel. Is this accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 Or actually just go with this which is already 12V: http://www.cdiweb.com/ProductDetail/ELN6012/318776/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 (edited) I'm looking at using the meanwell drivers for the LEDs, so I'm looking at how to drive the fans for the heatsink. It looks like 1 extra meanwell driver can be used, you can dial the voltage down to 12V and wire all the fans in parallel. Is this accurate? Honestly, for fans I would order this kit if you want something easy tha works well: http://www.rapidled....alth-Fan/Detail I have the 60mm version as an upgrade to the biocube, and they are very quiet. Also, having the adjustability is nice. I leave them on at full power for the time the lights are running, and have no issues. Edit - I have ordered a couple times from Rapidled, and their customer service and support is top notch. Edited April 28, 2011 by BowieReefer84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 That price is pretty high. I'm looking at $25 for the driver and $7/ea for 120mm fans. Also, I'll probably be able to use this one driver for all of the 120mm fans I have in the system, replacing the computer power supply and hopefully making things a bit neater. My primary concern with that supply is that it says it's for driving LEDs. I'm not clear if that means there is some circuitry that will make it unable to properly drive the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 That price is pretty high. I'm looking at $25 for the driver and $7/ea for 120mm fans. Also, I'll probably be able to use this one driver for all of the 120mm fans I have in the system, replacing the computer power supply and hopefully making things a bit neater. My primary concern with that supply is that it says it's for driving LEDs. I'm not clear if that means there is some circuitry that will make it unable to properly drive the fans. Yea, if you are running more than 2 fans I can see the issue with the price. I like things that I can simply plug in, and they work immediately. Seems like you are running more fans, and your idea is better. I am not sure about the circuitry. Sorry. What 120mm fans are $7 each? I will say the Stealth fans are very powerful for their size, and extremely quiet if this is a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 These are the ones I've been using. They're decent. http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-120mm-Case-R4-C2R-20AC-GP/dp/B0026ZPFDE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1303994178&sr=8-2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 That driver looks to be a 5 amp constant current (LED supply) non-dimmable driver... not sure if that is what you want to drive the fans you are looking at unless you plan on driving a bank of like 14 of them at a constant speed. I would think you could use something like this http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=18595+PS for the fans. If you want to vary the speed, you could put a pot in the output or get really fancy by putting a temperature sensing circuit to vary the speed via a microcontroller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyD April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 I used these fans for my DIY LED and paid $6 each. Seems price has dropped to $4. http://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-CFBL-012LB-120mm-LED-Case/dp/B003MDXCGQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1304009055&sr=8-1-spell From rapidled for a 2 fan setup: 12V DC adapter - $10 DC jack adapter - $3.50 Fan Y adapter - $3.50 I don't think you need the variable controller. I always run mine at full speed. Extra cooling is better than too little cooling. How many fans are you planning on running? If you really want to use the Meanwell driver to run the fans, look at the current output of the meanwell driver and the spec requirement of the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward April 28, 2011 Share April 28, 2011 That looks pretty decent. I'm looking at doing 2 fans on each of the lights. Sizes will be: 2 14"x14" 2 10"x14" So total of 8 fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 April 30, 2011 Share April 30, 2011 The ELN is not correct for driving fans. Fans want constant voltage and LEDs constant current. It might work, but I think you are just asking for problems later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward May 14, 2011 Share May 14, 2011 Does anyone have the exact ordering code for the LEDs that are recommended? I know Cool White XP-G and Royal Blue XP-E but there are a lot of options and availability seems to vary. Also, even though the XP-Gs can be drive to 1500mA, everyone is still just driving them at 1000mA or less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 May 16, 2011 Share May 16, 2011 IMO people just order cool white and RB. They get better pricing because the supplier can get rid of whatever they have the most of. People are very happy with Rapid LED and to my knowledge they don't pick a particular bin. In my order I have never worried about the bin and no one has complained. Sorry i am not more help. I think people tend to have too many for coverage so they end up turning them down - which may also increase the life of the LEDs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward May 16, 2011 Share May 16, 2011 IMO people just order cool white and RB. They get better pricing because the supplier can get rid of whatever they have the most of. People are very happy with Rapid LED and to my knowledge they don't pick a particular bin. In my order I have never worried about the bin and no one has complained. Sorry i am not more help. I think people tend to have too many for coverage so they end up turning them down - which may also increase the life of the LEDs. OK. I'm emailing with etgtech now to get pricing info. Do I want the bare LED or mounted on mcpcb starboard? I'm planning to mount on a heatsink with thermal grease and a screw. I believe I can do that with the bare LED, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 May 16, 2011 Share May 16, 2011 No, you need the star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward May 16, 2011 Share May 16, 2011 I'm getting a quote of $2/ea for both white and blue in XP-E @ qty 150: XPEWHT-L1-0000-00E01 I've just asked for a quote for the whites in XP-G as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 May 16, 2011 Share May 16, 2011 That does not sound right. Who are you talking with? E01 is the R2 brightness bin (114 lumen at 350ma) not as good as some of the others R3 - 122 R4 - 130 (XP-G) R5 - 139 (XP-G) So 114 lumen at 350 ma and about 3.2 volts. 114 / (.35 * 3.2) = 102 lumen per watt or 139 lumen at 350 ma and about 3.0 volts. 139 / (/35 * 3.0) = 132 lumen per watt So the XP-G is about 30% more efficient. So lets say 24 LEDs at 3 watt running 8 hours a day for 365 days. If my math is correct 210 kilowatts or ($25 dollars = $0.12 / kilowatt). So the one fixture will run you about $7.50 more per year. That is $0.31 per LED. So how long will you keep it? Also the less efficient ones will run hotter which is good in the winter and bad in the summer. And now I realize this is all my fault. I told you bins don't matter . Bins matter for brightness, but not so much for color. Whenever someone says bins I think color. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward May 16, 2011 Share May 16, 2011 That does not sound right. Who are you talking with? E01 is the R2 brightness bin (114 lumen at 350ma) not as good as some of the others R3 - 122 R4 - 130 (XP-G) R5 - 139 (XP-G) So 114 lumen at 350 ma and about 3.2 volts. 114 / (.35 * 3.2) = 102 lumen per watt or 139 lumen at 350 ma and about 3.0 volts. 139 / (/35 * 3.0) = 132 lumen per watt So the XP-G is about 30% more efficient. So lets say 24 LEDs at 3 watt running 8 hours a day for 365 days. If my math is correct 210 kilowatts or ($25 dollars = $0.12 / kilowatt). So the one fixture will run you about $7.50 more per year. That is $0.31 per LED. So how long will you keep it? Also the less efficient ones will run hotter which is good in the winter and bad in the summer. And now I realize this is all my fault. I told you bins don't matter . Bins matter for brightness, but not so much for color. Whenever someone says bins I think color. Sorry Lloyd Greenberg answered the email. I'll reply and ask for the R5 brightness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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