DIY biopellets

[ctenophore]

I just took the big fluid reactor pictured above and installed it on my main system. The water inside was almost completely opaque with bacteria, so I just picked it up and attached it to the input hose off my return manifold. Needless to say, the skimmer went absolutely nuts about 15 minutes later. Other than that, all is the same. Will update if/when any changes are noticed on this system.

 

The trial tank seems to be doing well also, although skimmer production has slowed down from a few days ago.

[zoozilla]

I'm noticing that my front glass is staying clean of film algae much longer. Also, my filter socks are clogging up much faster than normal. Typically, it takes 6 days or so to get clogged. Now the filter sock is needing a change out after 3.5 to 4 days. Not sure if I can directly corelate the clogging to the Bio-pellets; but, I am feeding much more since the addition of the Bio-Pellets.

[OldReefer]

I am also noticing the glass staying cleaner and the hair algea outbreak I had is fading. But then again I am still dosing vodka. What do the pellets look like in the reactor for those of you who have low nutrient levels? I think I see some bateria shedding off my pellets, but the water in the reactor is still very clear. Not like the big bloom I saw in Justin's reactor.

[russell_wiley]

where do you get these biopellets?

Thanks,

Russ

[ctenophore]

where do you get these biopellets?

Thanks,

Russ

Russ, they came from somewhere in China. We had to order 12kg to make freight cost effective. If you want to just get enough for yourself, you're probably best off searching google for some of the 5-6 companies that relabel them now. NP-biopellets, Two little fishies, NPX, Warner marine eco pellets, there are a few names.

 

If there are enough people to redo the group buy I will help put it together but I don't need any more myself.

 

Justin

[Guest thefishman65]

I might be interested if a group buy of one is started. I would like to see ctenophore's nitrates go down some first. I do have a few suggestions from reading some other threads. They are best used in a media reactor and the output should directed towards the skimmer. I posted this on reef central and got some agreement so:

 

Bacteria grows on the media and the jumbling in the strong current sloughs some of the bacteria off. Three things can happens to this sloughed off bacteria:

• It can be eaten (coral, filter feeders)
• It can be skimmed out
• it can go into the main tank and decompose

The first two are good. The third is bad, IMHO. It will leave the carbon from it's structure around for cyano, green hair algae, and other 'bad things'. I also think that if way too much is released that it is what caused the cloudiness, ph drop, and lack of oxygen that has been reported.

 

I hope this helps.

[zygote2k]

I'm using these in my skimmerless system. It's only been a month now and my N03 has dropped by 25%- I had a brief spike to 25ppm when I removed the DSB and added a rubble filter. I have not noticed any deleterious effects from using these without a skimmer. I also run carbon and GFO and have switched salt from I/O to the new Tropic Marin Bio-Activ salt.

I have only good things to say about it so far.

[Guest thefishman65]

AC Moore carries the friendly plastic (at least on the web). They have it for $53.99 for 28 oz. Next they have a 50% coupon (printed from their web site). Which would boil down to about $30/kg. Has anyone tried that version yet?

[Highland Reefer]

Justin,

 

It's nice that you have taken the time to put all this together with test results. I will be following along to see how the polycaprolactone (PCL) works out. FWIW, PCL is what is the active ingredient in the Instant Ocean Biopolymer product. This is the patent used for their product which provides test results and how they used different methods to implement the use of PCL. It is interesting that they decided to use it in a liquid form though:

 

http://www.freepaten...com/7244358.pdf

 

 

The use of the PCL by placing it in course sand/gravel beds may also be of interest to some hobbyists. It seems to work well by placing it in once every 6 months into course sand beds, perhaps crushed coral may make a come-back.

Edited June 19, 2010 by Highland Reefer

[Origami]

Cliff, correct me if I'm wrong, but PCL is a biodegradeable polymer, isn't it? That would seem, then, to be the primary mechanism by which it works. Slow assimilation by bacteria colonizing the plastic beads.

 

It's also a low-temp plastic that's used by hobbyists to mold-their-own. That makes it doubly useful, I guess.

 

Thanks for stopping by.

[Highland Reefer]

Cliff, correct me if I'm wrong, but PCL is a biodegradeable polymer, isn't it? That would seem, then, to be the primary mechanism by which it works. Slow assimilation by bacteria colonizing the plastic beads.

 

It's also a low-temp plastic that's used by hobbyists to mold-their-own. That makes it doubly useful, I guess.

 

Thanks for stopping by.

 

 

Correct, PCL is completely bio-degradable by bacteria and is the mechanism that provides the needed carbon source that bacteria seem to need to produce larger populations especially in a reef aquarium. Once the bacteria are skimmed out, then nitrate and phosphate used for the bacteria to grow will be removed.

 

It's also interesting that bacteria store energy reserves in the form of PHAs (polyhydroxyalkanoate) which is what is thought to be the active ingredient in the NP BioPellets. They are very similar compounds especially regarding the mechanisms that bacteria utilize these compounds. Currently the PHAs are more expensive to produce and sell then the PCLs which makes the PCLs an attractive choice IMHO especially for DIY hobbyists looking to save a few bucks. At this point, I have not been able to find any source for PHAs other than buying commercial products

 

It's also interesting that cyanobacteria produce the PHAs but not in anywhere near the quantities that bacteria do. The production of PCAs takes place in the cytoplasm of bacteria and cyano. Since cyano produce PHAs, I would assume they can readily use them also. This leads to the question, will the PCLs cause less problems with cyano in a reef aquarium then the PCAs?

 

Personally, I have been following threads using the NP BioPellets (which is believed to be PCA) to see if there are complaints about cyano problems. I haven't seen too many complaints so far, but a few have cropped up like with all forms of carbon dosing. It will be interesting to see if there are any complaints while using the PCL as well. Of course there can be many other factors that come into play regarding cyano problems.

[ctenophore]

Cliff, what are PCAs? Is that a different class of biopolymers than PHAs, PCL, or PLAs? Or is it an intermediate byproduct?

 

I thought most of the other biopellets were supposed to be mixes of PHA-based plastics.

[Origami]

Cliff, had anyone weighed in on how PLA's may perform in similar application?

 

I've sent for a PLA quote from some Natureworks distributors (http://www.natureworksllc.com/Where-to-Buy.aspx). Just curious at this point about the options available.

 

Justin, after reading this link:

http://www.mirelplastics.com/imagesupl/020110_%20Plastics%20Engineering%20%28Cover%29.pdf

 

and this link

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17222499

 

I became curious about PHB (polyhydroxybutyrate, a PHA) and the product, Mirel. Here's a link to the Mirel product (data sheets and processing guides are available there). It's unclear how one might obtain somewhat small quantities of the stuff (<50#).

http://www.mirelplastics.com/discover/default.aspx?ID=1560

[Highland Reefer]

PCA should be PHA. I had too many Ps on the brain.

[Highland Reefer]

Mirel is the only manufacturer of PHA I could find in the US, but I haven't been able to find a distributor. There are some manufacturers in China that may sell it in smaller quantities.

 

From the results that Hobbyists are finding from the use of these different bio-degradable plastics in tanks, they all seem to work well. The biggest difference I see is that some manufacturers add corn brand or rice brand into the polymer's structure, which reduces the cost significantly over the pure polymer. Adding the brand to the polymer could have a significant impact on a reef system, possibly a negative impact with the increased amount of dissolved organics added like starch. Too much starch has proven to cause problems for coral in research. At this point I am unaware of anyone using the starch based polymers in a reef tank, but if one is looking to buy these polymers, I would make sure they are pure polymer without any brand added, unless they want to try experimenting with the added starch.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Highland Reefer

[Origami]

The MSDS sheets for Ingeo biopolymer, a PLA, can be found here:

http://www.natureworksllc.com/product-and-applications/ingeo-biopolymer/technical-resources/safety-data-sheets.aspx

 

A cursory look indicates the product is 98% PLA. I doubt that the remaining 2% are fillers, but probably a conservative estimate of residues, and incomplete polymerization from the manufacturing process.

 

The MSDS for Mirel eludes to fillers. The only hint I see in the first data sheet (in the link that follows) is a statement that it is certified "OK Biobased" having an 80% or greater content of bio-based (organic) carbon.

 

PLA, which seems to be more available and perhaps even cheaper, may be something worth looking at.

[Highland Reefer]

This is a message I received from Gary (Mesocosm) regarding the bio-polymers. He has ordered all of them and will begin testing them in his facilities. It will be interesting what he finds out after trying them.

 

 

Greetings Cliff ... what's up?

 

I've been watching this topic metastasize throughout the SPS & Chemistry forums, and I must confess that I don't even know where to begin. We are on the edge of doing some serious experimentation with this stuff with Australian & Indonesian shipments in a wholesale setting ... from straightforward receiving-acclimation systems ... to large-scale frag growout systems ... to coloration emergence/enhancement systems ... to dedicated non-photosynthetic acclimation & holding systems.

 

So I'm going to wait until I've got the hard data to back up my opinions before I step out onto the playing field. But I will try to post a few observations as time permits.

 

As to insight into the compounds ... we're talking about three major groups: Polyhydroxyalkanoate (PHA ... speculated as the main component of NP Biopellets), Polycaprolactone (PCL ... confirmed as the main component of Instant Ocean's product), and Polylactic acid (PLA ... a degradable plastic widely applied in the food industry) ... or derivatives thereof. PHA is by far the more interesting of the three as it is synthesized by some bacteria as an energy storage molecule. PCL is almost as interesting because it is a polyester used in the medical industry as a degradable suture. PLA is essentially a corn starch derivative. These groups may have CaCO3 mixed in as a filler.

 

HTH

Gary

 

 

__________________

Gary White

Biologist, Route 66 Marine

 

 

"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."

(Charles Darwin)

Edited June 20, 2010 by Highland Reefer

[ctenophore]

Cliff, had anyone weighed in on how PLA's may perform in similar application?

 

I've sent for a PLA quote from some Natureworks distributors (http://www.natureworksllc.com/Where-to-Buy.aspx). Just curious at this point about the options available.

 

Justin, after reading this link:

http://www.mirelplastics.com/imagesupl/020110_%20Plastics%20Engineering%20%28Cover%29.pdf

 

and this link

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17222499

 

I became curious about PHB (polyhydroxybutyrate, a PHA) and the product, Mirel. Here's a link to the Mirel product (data sheets and processing guides are available there). It's unclear how one might obtain somewhat small quantities of the stuff (<50#).

http://www.mirelplastics.com/discover/default.aspx?ID=1560

I contacted Mirel but haven't gotten a reply yet. My guess is they've had plenty of "marine denitrification" requests from every aquarium company under the sun in the past few months.

[Origami]

One of the PLA contacts has responded. He's looking for the application, annual volume, etc. The standard questions for industrial supply reps. I'm withholding such information, asking only for a small volume quote for experimental purposes and informing him of my willingness to work through Distribution channels if available. We'll see what comes of this inquiry. I suspect as you do, that they may be inundated by hobbyist requests at this time. He may just blow it off, but we'll see.

[Origami]

Cliff and Justin, interesting article from the Smithsonian here on PLA:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/plastic.html?c=y&page=1

 

From page 3,

"Despite PLA’s potential as an environmentally friendly material, it seems clear that a great deal of corn packaging, probably the majority of it, will end up in landfills. And there’s no evidence it will break down there any faster or more thoroughly than PET or any other form of plastic. Glenn Johnston, manager of global regulatory affairs for NatureWorks, says that a PLA container dumped in a landfill will last “as long as a PET bottle.” No one knows for sure how long that is, but estimates range from 100 to 1,000 years."

 

It's a very informative article giving the layperson a nice overview of the challenges facing PLA as a viable source of biodegradeable plastic. It seems to require special treatment (high temperatures, for example) and special facilities for composting. This is not denied by Natureworks. See:

http://www.natureworksllc.com/the-ingeo-journey/end-of-life-options/composting.aspx

 

Off hand, regular PLA doesn't look like a viable alternative. That leaves PHAs and PCL. It will be interesting to see what Gary's inquiry turns up. Even so, I've requested and will receive a 2-3 pound sample of PLA to play with.

[Highland Reefer]

Tom,

 

Thanks for the articles.

 

Yes, IMHO the PLAs may not be as good, but only experimenting with them will tell. Perhaps some of the PLAs with 10% corn starch incorporated into the molecule may work even better. Those that have more than 10% corn starch may add too much organic material and result in bacterial blooms. It will be interesting to see your results and also know if the product you work with has incorporated any additional corn starch in the molecule, which makes the polymer cheaper to buy. I have read a few studies where they used polymers with the corn starch and found that at the 10% level they received the best nitrate reduction. These studies were in waste management studies using regular water (not marine).

[Origami]

Tom,

 

Thanks for the articles.

 

Yes, IMHO the PLAs may not be as good, but only experimenting with them will tell. Perhaps some of the PLAs with 10% corn starch incorporated into the molecule may work even better. Those that have more than 10% corn starch may add too much organic material and result in bacterial blooms. It will be interesting to see your results and also know if the product you work with has incorporated any additional corn starch in the molecule, which makes the polymer cheaper to buy. I have read a few studies where they used polymers with the corn starch and found that at the 10% level they received the best nitrate reduction. These studies were in waste management studies using regular water (not marine).

What struck me with particular concern, Cliff, was the fact that PLA is not any more biodegradeable than PET unless bio-processed at high temperatures (140 degrees F) for 10 consecutive days (according to the Smithsonian article - page 2) - the so-called "controlled composting environment." Not exactly our tank conditions.

 

I agree, too much corn starch additive, and we're adding too much, too fast and asking for an uncontrolled (or at least, hard to control) bacterial bloom with the attending problems.

[Highland Reefer]

Yet another solid carbon source I ran across, (Polyvinyl Alcohol Beads):

 

 

Purification of aquarium water by PVA gel-immobilized photosynthetic bacteria during goldfish rearing

Journal Biotechnology and Bioprocess Engineering

Received: 5 September 2008 Accepted: 27 November 2008 Published online: 17 May 2009

 

http://www.springerlink.com/content/d6836368n176017q/fulltext.pdf

 

Abstract

 

This study was conducted to evaluate the ability of a PVA-gel beads filtration (PVA) system using photosynthetic bacteria to purify water. To accomplish this, duplicate long-term goldfish rearing experiments were conducted using four different types of aquarium systems (COF, PSB, EMC, and PVA). The results revealed that the concentrations of NH4 +-N on the day of a goldfish

[scott711]

any more updates on this? I am thinking of trying it...

[Guest thefishman65]

Scott I am going to try the Friendly Plastic Pellets (will probably order next week). You can get 28 oz for about $40 shipped through amazon. If you are wiling to take the chance I think this is the cheapest way and every thing I read says they will work.