I did the ASM G3 mesh wheel mod (many pics)

[tygger]

Does anyone which enkamat version is best? Looks like they have different densities between the 7003, 7010, 7018, 7020, etc.

 

http://www.colbond-usa.com/searchresult.ht...;specificname=0

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Does anyone which enkamat version is best? Looks like they have different densities between the 7003, 7010, 7018, 7020, etc.

 

http://www.colbond-usa.com/searchresult.ht...;specificname=0

 

 

I know the 7910 should not be used, as it has a biodegradable mesh woven in. Other than that, I don't know. I bought the ebay stuff (and don't know what type it is...it just says "P4" which means nothing to me).

 

I noticed the 7910 data sheet mentions it is fused with a geotextile, and some of the others did not. I think that is the offending material, I'd avoid any that mention that.

 

 

One other ? Has anyone who did the recirc mod really noticed a significant increase in performance, or should I just stick with the threadwheel and leave it at that?

 

I have not noticed any difference with the recirc mod. After drilling those holes in my skimmer, I now wish I hadn't. Especially after talking to chefthomas and seeing he has been using a totally un-modded G3 for years. Your mileage may vary.

 

tim

 

 

This morning there was 1" of dark skimmate in the collection cup. This is still with the gate valve all the way open.

 

So far I have to say that the mesh mod is just as good as its cracked up to be. Definitely exceeded my expectations.

 

 

Sounds like you may need to go back to the stand pipe to adjust it. Or I think you can install a longer pipe between the gate valve and the skimmer exhaust?

 

tim

Edited November 21, 2007 by extreme_tooth_decay

[Rascal]

Sounds like you may need to go back to the stand pipe so adjust it. Or I think you can install a longer pipe between the gate valve and the skimmer exhaust?

 

tim

 

I have my gate valve as far down on the stand pipe as it will go, and above that a T with the exhaust coming out the side and then back down into the sump. I can't even remember why I decided to do it that way, but it has worked fine until I did this mod. You can just see the T on the left in this old pick (3 days of skimmate last year after I did the recirc mod):

As its presently configured I can't lower it or open it up any more. The only thing I can think of is to cut a little bit off of the the bottom section of the T. If that doesn't work I may try to put the T first and the gate valve on the exhaust line. Now that I think of it that is probably my best option.

 

It's a nice problem to have. FWIW I definitely think I got increased performance with the recirc mod and IMO it is worth doing, but the meshwheel mod has had even more of an effect. With all three mods I really can't complain about the performance I'm getting out of this $400 skimmer.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Rascal

[Rascal]

I may try to put the T first and the gate valve on the exhaust line.

 

On second thought, I don't think I'm going to touch a thing.

 

22 hours:

 

32 hours (slightly different angle but there's about an inch more there and its darker):

 

Yeah, I'd say the mesh mod was worth the $5 and 20 minutes.

[tygger]

FYI - I found this article on RC:

 

 

Before every body gets too excited and starts exchanging their Deltec pinwheel impellors for the 'new ' mesh type impellors, I thought people may be interested in some information regarding the mesh wheel.

 

 

 

Deltec use the same mesh material in various applications and experimented with the mesh wheel impellor about 15 years ago, so this idea is not new.

 

The small diameter of the mesh does produce very fine bubbles as it cuts through the air however there are also a number of disadvantages of this material which is why Deltec chose not to develop it further in a serious commercial product range.

 

As water enters the pump, the first thing that it comes into contact with is the mesh on the impellor. Any algae or detritus entering the pump can easily become trapped within the mesh where it will start to build up requiring regular maintenance - a thing that most people like to think that they do, but in reality do not. As detritus builds up in the mesh the ability to split the air and therefore the performance will drop.

 

The mesh by the nature of the material is totally non uniform in construction so no two mesh wheels are the same which can lead to differences in performance from impellor to impellor.

 

With its non uniform shape it is almost impossible to balance which becomes even worse when there is any detritus lodged in it. An unbalanced impellor will oscillate which creates irritating vibration noise and the possibility of wear on the ceramic shaft and bearings which reduces the life of the pump.

A protein skimmer is about adding the maximum amount of air into the maximum amount of water to maximise fractionation and waste removal.

 

It was found that for all the mesh will draw air and smash it in to fine bubbles; the mesh wheel impellor draws far less water through the pump than a pinwheel. This means that you get lots of air but clean less water. The reduced water can even cause the pump itself to run hot and trip out the internal thermal switch.

 

The mesh material itself has a limited life span in salt water and will start to break down over time, especially in the turbulent conditions of the pump housing with potential for becoming trapped inside the pump. As the mesh starts to break down the efficiency of the skimmer will once again start to fall.

 

 

The design and operation of the Deltec Pinwheel Skimmer has been developed over many years and relies on exact engineering tolerances to get the best mix of air and water which can not be achieved with a random mesh.

 

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/?q=node/383

 

What do you guys think?

[rsarvis]

Anyone have comments on this stuff posted by tygger, before I get some of that mesh to do the mesh mod? Seems like people here are pretty high on the mod, haven't had problems with build-up, and have been getting unambiguously positive results in terms of cleaning out the water. But wanted to see if there are any detractors.

 

FYI - I found this article on RC:

Before every body gets too excited and starts exchanging their Deltec pinwheel impellors for the 'new ' mesh type impellors, I thought people may be interested in some information regarding the mesh wheel.

 

 

 

Deltec use the same mesh material in various applications and experimented with the mesh wheel impellor about 15 years ago, so this idea is not new.

 

The small diameter of the mesh does produce very fine bubbles as it cuts through the air however there are also a number of disadvantages of this material which is why Deltec chose not to develop it further in a serious commercial product range.

 

As water enters the pump, the first thing that it comes into contact with is the mesh on the impellor. Any algae or detritus entering the pump can easily become trapped within the mesh where it will start to build up requiring regular maintenance - a thing that most people like to think that they do, but in reality do not. As detritus builds up in the mesh the ability to split the air and therefore the performance will drop.

 

The mesh by the nature of the material is totally non uniform in construction so no two mesh wheels are the same which can lead to differences in performance from impellor to impellor.

 

With its non uniform shape it is almost impossible to balance which becomes even worse when there is any detritus lodged in it. An unbalanced impellor will oscillate which creates irritating vibration noise and the possibility of wear on the ceramic shaft and bearings which reduces the life of the pump.

A protein skimmer is about adding the maximum amount of air into the maximum amount of water to maximise fractionation and waste removal.

 

It was found that for all the mesh will draw air and smash it in to fine bubbles; the mesh wheel impellor draws far less water through the pump than a pinwheel. This means that you get lots of air but clean less water. The reduced water can even cause the pump itself to run hot and trip out the internal thermal switch.

 

The mesh material itself has a limited life span in salt water and will start to break down over time, especially in the turbulent conditions of the pump housing with potential for becoming trapped inside the pump. As the mesh starts to break down the efficiency of the skimmer will once again start to fall.

 

 

The design and operation of the Deltec Pinwheel Skimmer has been developed over many years and relies on exact engineering tolerances to get the best mix of air and water which can not be achieved with a random mesh.

 

http://www.theaquariumsolution.com/?q=node/383

 

What do you guys think?

[Guest hundredneight]

Does anyone which enkamat version is best? Looks like they have different densities between the 7003, 7010, 7018, 7020, etc.

 

http://www.colbond-usa.com/searchresult.ht...;specificname=0

 

 

pf4 is the enkamat to use the numbers just mean the size of openings and density of the mat. from what i learned pf4 is the correct one

[gastone]

Anyone have comments on this stuff posted by tygger, before I get some of that mesh to do the mesh mod? Seems like people here are pretty high on the mod, haven't had problems with build-up, and have been getting unambiguously positive results in terms of cleaning out the water. But wanted to see if there are any detractors.

 

 

I don't even feel like acknowledging said post. Buy the enkamat, do the mod. You'll never regret it and you'll never look back.

 

Garrett.

[jamesbuf]

I don't even feel like acknowledging said post. Buy the enkamat, do the mod. You'll never regret it and you'll never look back.

 

Garrett.

 

 

I agree with Garrett. The meshwheel is all its cracked up to be. That article is posted on Deltec's (D-D) website, so its about what I expected them to say. I mean come one, what are they gonna say, that the meshwheel is better?

 

In your case, you're modding a ASM not a Deltec, so I would say DEFINITELY do the mod as it will be a far superior upgrade over the ASM's needlewheel. I've been running a much smaller GSA skimmer with a meshwheel on it and it been keeping up with a Deltec AP851 rated for 2-3 times the tanks size (also twice the cost), so in my personal experience the meshwheel is superior to the needlewheels and will help you get more bang for your buck out of your skimmer.

[CHUBAKAH]

Since it's been a while, I am curious if you guys still agree this is the way to go? I have a ASM 3 myself, but it has been running flawlessly since day one with no problems. I'm kind the type of guy who, If it ain't broke don't fix it.

 

What say you?

[tygger]

So I ended up doing the mod and have no regrets. The mesh wheel definitely chops up the air into smaller finer bubbles. With the mesh mod, when I remove the collection cup with the pump still running, I can feel a fine mist being created by the micro-bubbles popping.

 

Only draw back is that you'll probably need to re-mesh the wheel after several months, so I would just order extra right off the bat. The mesh will begin to fall apart...

[extreme_tooth_decay]

So I ended up doing the mod and have no regrets. The mesh wheel definitely chops up the air into smaller finer bubbles. With the mesh mod, when I remove the collection cup with the pump still running, I can feel a fine mist being created by the micro-bubbles popping.

 

Only draw back is that you'll probably need to re-mesh the wheel after several months, so I would just order extra right off the bat. The mesh will begin to fall apart...

 

 

7 months later and my mesh is still in perfect condition and isn't clogged at all.

 

I was going to clean it, but it didn't need any cleaning.

 

I also like to leave things alone that appear to be working...it took a lot of convincing to make me want to do this mod...but once I saw how mangled and fouled my needlewheel was, I was convinced right there.

 

tim

[tygger]

7 months? It must've been how I cut the mesh... I prob cut it too large causing it to rub against the sides. On my 2nd set, I made effort to cut the mesh without breaking some of the loops. Kinda hard to explain...

[extreme_tooth_decay]

7 months? It must've been how I cut the mesh... I prob cut it too large causing it to rub against the sides. On my 2nd set, I made effort to cut the mesh without breaking some of the loops. Kinda hard to explain...

 

Weird...I wasn't too careful when I cut mine, I know that.

 

I wonder if you got some bad enkamat (the biodegradable stuff)?

 

tim

[yauger]

do you cut the mesh right at the lip of the disc? or do you under size it a bit to prevent rubbing?

 

I was thinking the best way to cut this stuff would be a hot knife from a craft store... will cut it like butter and seal the newly cut areas... what do you think? good idea?

[extreme_tooth_decay]

do you cut the mesh right at the lip of the disc? or do you under size it a bit to prevent rubbing?

 

I was thinking the best way to cut this stuff would be a hot knife from a craft store... will cut it like butter and seal the newly cut areas... what do you think? good idea?

 

 

For me, I just used scissors. I cut it flush with the disk.

 

I think a ratty jagged edge might be better for chopping up bubbles than a smooth sealed edge. Probaby won't make much difference though.

 

tim

[yauger]

I would think that having a ragged edge would allow for the material to degrade faster... if thats the case would it be better to seal them? I wounder how much performance would be lost if I did this?

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I would think that having a ragged edge would allow for the material to degrade faster... if thats the case would it be better to seal them? I wounder how much performance would be lost if I did this?

 

You could always try both ways. At $2 a pop...who cares?

 

You'll find opinions vary. I haven't researched for a very long time (7 months), and may have forgotten, but I don't recall the long time users of enkamat in my previous research complaining about a short life span of the product, nor has mine worn at all...but...I wouldn't expect much degradation either, almost certainly something you couldn't objectively test.

 

tim

[OldReefer]

Sorry to bring up this old thread, but I have a couple of questions. I have used ASM skimmers in another life.... A G1X and a G6. I did the recirc mod on the G1X but didn't see much of a difference.

 

I am about to pick up a used G4+. I will definately do the mesh mod and the the gate valve. Is the recirc mod worth trying? I have and extra Sedra 3500 and Uniseals laying around, but I am curious what you guys might think now that you have a year of run-time on these skimmers?

 

You could always try both ways. At $2 a pop...who cares?

 

You'll find opinions vary. I haven't researched for a very long time (7 months), and may have forgotten, but I don't recall the long time users of enkamat in my previous research complaining about a short life span of the product, nor has mine worn at all...but...I wouldn't expect much degradation either, almost certainly something you couldn't objectively test.

 

tim

[tygger]

I still think its better than the needlewheel that comes with the pump. I tried switching back to the needlewheel to see the difference and it was night and day.

 

The enkamat would last for a while as long as you trim it so that the edges aren't rubbing inside the pump. That was my mistake... I had mine slightly touching the wall and although it would perform great, it would only last about 1-2 months before starting to tear apart.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Sorry to bring up this old thread, but I have a couple of questions. I have used ASM skimmers in another life.... A G1X and a G6. I did the recirc mod on the G1X but didn't see much of a difference.

 

I am about to pick up a used G4+. I will definately do the mesh mod and the the gate valve. Is the recirc mod worth trying? I have and extra Sedra 3500 and Uniseals laying around, but I am curious what you guys might think now that you have a year of run-time on these skimmers?

 

Sorry I missed your question. I'm sure it is too late now but what the hey!

 

In my own experience, I noticed a big difference when I did the mesh mod. I did not notice any difference when I did the recirc mod. I wished I had not drilled those holes in my skimmer afterward. YMMV.

 

tim