dandy7200 April 8, 2007 Share April 8, 2007 No way, I learned everything I know about reef equipment from browsing DIY forums all over the net. We exchange information and learn together. These days I really don't have time to spec every singe part out but will occasionally post threads when time is available. Waiting for parts in the mail and stain to dry so this seemed like a good time. Those of you who are true DIYers will reverse engineer anything you can get your hands on so I thought I would give you a head start. Those that are not will hopefully learn the way the equipment functions better by seeing how all the parts go together and work, to achieve the intended goal. One last thing before I start this build. There is a member here who has basically been talking smack behind my back, saying that I don't know what I am doing. I just want to say to all, that you really need to let your eyes and hands be the judge not your ears. Lets begin This is my new small model fluidized reactor. 1/4" acrylic base 7x7 rough cut 1/4" sheet pvc 6.5x6.5 rounded over top edge 1/8" groove for 4.5" tube and 3.5" tube with short piece of 3.5" tube set in inner groove: 4.5" tube in: More to come...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 8, 2007 Author Share April 8, 2007 3/8" acrylic Top flange round over top and bottom then 1/8" groove bottom side for 4.5" tube and 1/8" groove on top side for o-ring. 8 holes drilled and tapped. Large hole predrilled for pilot hole later on with the flush trim bit: Inner chamber 3.5" tube and two 1/4" pvc disc drilled and grooved for the 3.5" tube rounded corners top and bottom both pieces: snap together, only the bottom one will be glued on: Here you can start to see it come together. I will do most of the plumbing later on, right now nothing is glued it is just a dry fit to make sure everything is sized correctly: More to come.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 8, 2007 Author Share April 8, 2007 Thumbscrews threaded in to top flange: This piece is not the easiest make It can be done with basic tools though, it's not like I have a CNC......yet Now the unions on the lid. Again they are just sitting on there I need to glue up and drill holes etc for them but you get the idea. Looks like I will end up offsetting the unions on these smaller reactors to make everything fit nice and tidy. FWIW, I use weldon #40 which is a two part for all seams. This is pretty much the highest PSI joint you can use for something like this and needed to bond the pvc to acrylic. Doing this out of all acrylic without the sheet pvc you could likely do it with #16 or #1802 if you can find it. Build away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tgallo April 8, 2007 Share April 8, 2007 Tony like's. we need to chat so you can make me two custom filter sock holders to clamp on the edge of my euro braced sump. Side note, i dont see the groove for the rubber gasket on top, what am i missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 8, 2007 Author Share April 8, 2007 Tony like's. we need to chat so you can make me two custom filter sock holders to clamp on the edge of my euro braced sump. Side note, i dont see the groove for the rubber gasket on top, what am i missing. There is groove on the bottom side for the tube and one slightly offset on the top for the o-ring. It will stand out more when the orange silicone gasket is glued in. I have to do that after I glue and flush trim the inside of the flange so it doesn't stick to the router table. We can talk in a few weeks about sock holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 8, 2007 Author Share April 8, 2007 (edited) whoops Edited April 8, 2007 by dandy7200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmax7774 April 8, 2007 Share April 8, 2007 nice looking stuff Dan. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hbh April 9, 2007 Share April 9, 2007 I'm NOT a DYI! I'm impressed! Keep going and continue to do what you do best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rrubberbandman April 9, 2007 Share April 9, 2007 Awsome........do you do this type of work for a living?.....it looks good! Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAGA April 9, 2007 Share April 9, 2007 Looks good Dan, you may want to re-think the Weldon #40. It's not the strongest stuff to use and over time tends to break down............usually after a couple of years. If you anneal it properly it offers quite a bit more strength. #16 is worse to use as far as strength goes. It offers some gap filling qualities but, for strength it's pretty sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 9, 2007 Author Share April 9, 2007 Looks good Dan, you may want to re-think the Weldon #40. It's not the strongest stuff to use and over time tends to break down............usually after a couple of years. If you anneal it properly it offers quite a bit more strength. #16 is worse to use as far as strength goes. It offers some gap filling qualities but, for strength it's pretty sad. Thanks for the input Jeff. I do have the annealing capibilities by using the monster double stack convection ovens at work. Interesting your experience shows breakdown and low bond strength of #40? When I talked to IPS about the cement selection for this application this was their #1 choice. I did cross referance the PB and it shows a curing strength of 7000psi so it was on par with what they said. Cure strength of #3 is only 2500psi and #4 is only 2600psi. Your right on about the 16 it is only 2200 psi. I will suggest it to people if they "have to ask" since it is a easy solevent to learn with. I have a case of 4052 to go pickup as well that I have been waiting to give a run with. 4052 was their #2 suggested product for vinyl to acrylic bond and cure strength is well within the tolerances needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90OcReef April 9, 2007 Share April 9, 2007 Dan, Love the twist lock flanges.... Excellent work! -Jess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 9, 2007 Author Share April 9, 2007 (edited) Dan, Love the twist lock flanges.... Excellent work! -Jess Thanks Jess, actually those are keyholes. These are my twist locks.... I know splitting hairs right LOL Edited April 9, 2007 by dandy7200 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
90OcReef April 9, 2007 Share April 9, 2007 (edited) I had a stupid moment.... haha, well, love em' both!! Great work!! i can't even begin to imagine how much time you had invested in those flanges alone.... -Jess Edited April 9, 2007 by 90OcReef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAGA April 9, 2007 Share April 9, 2007 Many years ago I used the 40 to glue with. It took a couple of years to find out but, after that amount of time the glue would let go. I too back then (12+yrs ago) spoke with the IPS Weldon guys and spoke with both reps and their chemist and was given that exact information you posted. What I found out though that in practice what they say in comparison to shop fabricators I have worked with in two plastic shops here in Maryland is totally different. When I first worked in a shop and would lay out that exact information they would laugh. They would then show me the difference by gluing up various pieces of acrylic and pvc and let them set up for a day and then go and break them apart. We would use all of the solvents and the 40 along with some 16. I found that it was quite easy to break apart the 40 and the 16 with not much effort. The #3 weldon doesn't take too much to get apart either. The #4 though especially for acrylic is very strong and if done correctly can be done where in order to get it apart your tearing out matierial from each surface. Solvent bonds (when done correctly) For what I do though I take it a step further and mix my own cocktail to insure the strength needed to hold large amounts of water. For what your doing it's not as critical but, the #40 i would shy away from due to it's degrading nature I have seen. If your annealing though it's really not an issue as that really makes all the difference in the world as far as long term goes. Another great and very efficient way to bond what your doing is to go the route of PVC welding. There is a bit of cost setting that up but, it's very fast and incredibly strong. I can provide some links if your interested in that. btw; I like those twist flanges! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 10, 2007 Author Share April 10, 2007 Well you sure can't just "pull it apart". I glued up last night so this has only cured for a day and full stength does take 7 days to acheive but I just did a real world test with my bench vise and 20# of steel.... Bottom Flange: Top flange: I am interested in the pvc welding links though. I have researched it a bit and I always want to learn something new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAGA April 10, 2007 Share April 10, 2007 www.adeon1.com is a good source for that. on the joint strength though doing that demonstration doesn't give a long term test. Where the weakness is is over time and also impact strength not just a short stress test. Give that a bump with something and see what happens. perhaps the next meeting I can bring a couple of various bonds and show you what I am talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 10, 2007 Author Share April 10, 2007 If I bump it those weights will fall off the tube and smash my toes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tgallo April 10, 2007 Share April 10, 2007 I'm no expert, but i dought those seams will ever come loose considering the small amount of water pressure, if barely any in the reactors and skimmers we use. 500 gallon tank mite be another story . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NAGA April 10, 2007 Share April 10, 2007 Well it's the over time factor that plays into it. With a quick demonstration it can be shown and be quite suprising. You are correct about there being little pressure but, over time the joint does not hold up as well. I can only say this with my experiences going back 12+years and seeing what happens. You can ask Doug at Deltec for instance as a note worthy individual that I know wishes he had listened to a warning I gave 7 month's before his tank broke. I have built all of this stuff in the past and did it for years and can tell you I have tried it all. Most of that playing around was with Chip (flowerseller). I don't do any of it now but, it's how I started in plastic fab before I got professional training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 10, 2007 Author Share April 10, 2007 LOL I really like that you offer instant demonstrations but you require several years to pass for mine to be valid. The strength of the joint is multiplied greatly by the routing of the groove for the tube to sit in rather than just a butt joint. I am however going to buy a welding gun and work with that for a bit since I think I can actually speed up production with that technique once mastered. I like the idea of being able to tack weld a piece together and then go back over and seam everything up. I used to work with a guy in Seattle making processing tanks for the salmon fishing industry. They were all 1/4" steel frames with poly liners. I welded the steel and he did the poly and he was always able to weld his material about 10 times faster than me since he didn't have to really prep or finish the material in any way and he never had burns or cuts on his arms. He went on to start building million gallon petrol holding tanks using this method and here I am 10 years later wishing I would have been holding the plastic torch a bit more in those days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenny April 10, 2007 Share April 10, 2007 As always I'm impressed. Can you share with us wannabe diyers what tools you used to cut the keyholes and grooves? Thanks! Jenny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 10, 2007 Author Share April 10, 2007 Sure Jenny, For the keyholes basically you machine both circles with a circle jig and a router. Then use carpet tape to fix them both together. You drill with your tapping bit through both pieces and then remove the bottom flange. The top flange you drill out with a larger bit and then back to the router with a cicle jig to cut the "key slot" then tap the bottom part of the flange. For the grooves you use the circle jig and a router and just barely plunge into the material with the right sized bit. This can also be done with a drill press and milling bits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller April 10, 2007 Share April 10, 2007 How do you get such a large hole so close to the edge without it cracking? Don't tell me it's all in the wrist.......... Is it the pvc material is more forgiving than the plexiglass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 April 10, 2007 Author Share April 10, 2007 How do you get such a large hole so close to the edge without it cracking? Don't tell me it's all in the wrist.......... Is it the pvc material is more forgiving than the plexiglass? Sharp tools and yes the pvc is softer then acrylic that is why I like it for this application, it bends rather than breaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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