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Help on what to do now


Boxxr

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(edited)

This has not been a good week. I lost my Powder Blue (who I think was the carrier), my 2 false percs that I had for some time, and my Ebili Angel. I haven't found my ebili but it was always active in the tank and I haven't seen him for about 3 days. I also think my Bi Color Angel and Blonde Naso tang are not doing well.

 

Please do not berate me on the need for quarantine tank - the loss of 4 fish, and maybe more, is enough.

 

I plan on setting up a hospital tank today, but I fear that it is too late for the current occupants. My 3 firefish and six line wrasse don't seem to be affected by it.

 

In addition to that I am suffering from a algae outbreak that I cannot seem to get down. I set up blinds in the fish room to block the natural light that I have, my nitrates and phosphate are at 0. My skimmer is working well and has lots of skimmate.

 

So my questions:

 

- What size tank should I get for a Naso tang, bicolor Angel, and three firefish as a hospital tank? I plan on getting a copper based solution for them today.

 

- What do I do with my display tank to get ride of that darn protozoan that has killed everything? Do I just not put anything in there for a month which should break the cycle of the Ich organism?

 

- Any other ideas about the algae? I will include my chemistry numbers at the bottom.

 

The most frustrating thing is my 24G aquapod looks great right next to my main tank. I have a royal gramma in there that has 'issues' with the six line. The gramma was easier to catch than the six line.

 

I am so frustrated right now, I am inclined to give the fish away and tear the darn tank down and just keep the 24.

 

All tests are using salifert

 

Nitrite = 0

Nitrate = 0

Ammonia = 0

Ca = 380

KH = 9.9/3.54

Phos= 0

PH = 8.4

temp = 78.5

 

 

 

Thanks,

Edited by Boxxr
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(edited)

Hey Boxxr!

 

Sorry to hear about your loss... no matter what the reason it's always depressing losing fish :( I won't berate you on the QT'ing issue, as I haven't ever QT'ed either.... there's upsides and downsides to the topic.

 

Anyway, as for your questions... a hospital tank doesn't necessarily have to be large as it's obviously a temporary home for the fish. However, one thing you'll want to make sure to do is to move something that has bacteria into the tank, from your display tank. That way it won't start a cycle and make things worse for the fish that are surviving.

 

The algae issue, what type of algae is it? How long has the algae issue been going on? Did it just start as the fish were dying? If so, the dying fish are contributing to the nutrient levels. Other causes can be anything you're adding to the tank (for example excess fish food).

 

As far as your tests for nitrate and phosphate, they can be misleading. They will read 0 of course because there's no longer any nitrate or phosphate in the water - the algae is using it up. That doesn't mean however that something in the tank isn't breaking down and creating more nutrients at the same rate they are being used up. I feel your pain on this - I battled hair algae for almost all of last year in my 180 gallon! Very frustrating indeed, especially after my 55 gallon tank (which I broke down to upgrade to the 180) was so very successful.

 

Good luck on the recovery of the remaining livestock, and again sorry for your losses!

 

EDIT: I meant to add, if your main tank is fishless for the life cycle of ich, it will all die off, and then it would be safe to re-introduce the fish back to your display tank.

Edited by Folta
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get one of these:

 

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/pr....itemKey=210851

or

http://www.thatpetplace.com/pet/product/pr....itemKey=210890

 

I had ich problems and lost hundreds of dollars in fish, I found a 57watt aqua sterilizer on sale and haven't had any issues since. Well worth the investment. I thought about it this way, I lost about $400 in fish during one of my outbreaks, so that is how I justified the cost.

 

Best of luck battling your issues

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Folta - thanks for the reply. So far the Naso, Bicolor Angel, six line, and my three firefish are still okay. When I talked to Sean today at F & F his thoughts were I had more than one type of outbreak in the tank. The clowns appeared to have velvet from my description. But the powder blue look like it had ich. Maybe when I try and capture the remaining fish, I will find the remains of eibli angel.

 

I have a 20G that I will be using as the hospital tank. I am making some more water as I type this so I can replace what I will be taking out of the main tank. I really hate to put the Naso in such a small tank.

 

The algae, hmmm. Well it looks like I have multiple types of that too (figures that nothing would be easy). Well it appears that I have cyano (I know a bacteria not an algae) on the sand and some other areas. And there is short greenish (with a little brown) on the rocks. It was starting before the death of the fishes. I thought about putting some phosban in the area of my return, but since my phosphate was low, I decided against it. Maybe I still will do that.

 

I don't know that much about UV sterilizers.

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(edited)

UV sterilizers work, plain and simple. Just make sure to get one that is strong enough. You gotta make sure the flow through the unit is slow enough to kill parasites, not just algae. Freefloating algae is killed at much higher flow rates as opposed to parasites. Many of the units out there don't make that distinction in their descriptions when you do your research. Check this chart out:

 

http://www.aquaultraviolet.com/instructions/UVsizing.pdf

 

The 90,000 microns/cm is what you need to attain to kill parasites. The chart shows a 25watt sterilizer with 400gph going through it would work great. I have the 57 watt one and I could run 1000pgh through it and still be effective. I only have it hooked up to a Mag7 and I'm had no problems for quite some time now. Trust me, you will not regret this purchase.

Edited by jamesbuf
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UV sterilizers work, plain and simple. .....

Trust me, you will not regret this purchase.

I can not agree more having used UV for more than 12 years.

Like anything in this hobby, it's up for debate and that' in my mind is great since we ultimately have some great discussions.

 

Worried about micro life?

My fuge is litterly teeming with life ranging from copepods to mini serpent stars.

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First an update. All the remaining fish are in the 20g hospital tank that has been treated with Mardel Coppersafe. True to form, the six line took the longest to catch - over an hour. The fish are not as stressed as I thought they would be. We will see in the morning. I did find the Ebili Angel, but there wasn't much left of him to determine what killed him.

 

I know that the Ich/velvet have about a 6 week cycle and I know that I need to leave the fish out of the infected tank for that time period. Howver, how long should I leave the copper in the hospital tank? I haven't seen anyting that talks that much about it. Don't want to over treat them if I don't need to. It's bad enough that the naso, which is about 6 inches lone, is in a 20G.

 

I can not agree more having used UV for more than 12 years.

Like anything in this hobby, it's up for debate and that' in my mind is great since we ultimately have some great discussions.

 

Worried about micro life?

My fuge is litterly teeming with life ranging from copepods to mini serpent stars.

 

So how do you plumb this in to the tank? I will read the pdf that James posted in the AM. I am beat and I still have to top off the display before going to bed.

 

Thanks guys.

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Guest beatle

Worried about micro life?

My fuge is litterly teeming with life ranging from copepods to mini serpent stars.

 

I'm just wondering how your pods can make it back to the display tank if they have to run the UV gauntlet to get there. I've always wanted UV for the added protection and clearer water, but I'm afraid my mandarin would starve if I did that.

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I'm just wondering how your pods can make it back to the display tank if they have to run the UV gauntlet to get there.

Cinchey,

my fuge dumps smack dab into the display.

DSC_2175.jpg

My fuge is to the left of one of the overflow pipes and is 38" long.

It's on a reverse light cycle and slow flow. My return is split with some thru UV and some not. The some not is what goes to the fuge.

All my water dumps into the sump which is just that, a sump. I have a seperate frag tank which is also on the "not" water flow.

 

 

I've always wanted UV for the added protection and clearer water, but I'm afraid my mandarin would starve if I did that.

Realize that your mandrin can still starve to death just as easily without a UV.

The one idea that never seems to make it into the UV debate is "proper system management". I am using a 40w - t5 CurrentUSA gamma UV.

I flow 500gph on a 300g system.

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I don't use the main return pump for running water through the UV sterilizer. It has its own dedicated pump, a Mag7. I also use a sponge prefilter on the Mag7 that feeds the sterilizer so detritus doesn't clogg the inside of the UV tubing. This also prevents any baby snails and other live creatures from being pulled into pump. I just make sure to clean the sponge every week or so.

Also, my sump is just a sump, with just some pieces of extra liverock in it. No macroalgae or sand. I have a 3rd tank which is my remoted DSB/refugium that has hundreds, if not thousands, of pods and microfauna.

UV sterilizers do restrict live in your tank........the pests that you don't want growing! It hasn't negatively affected any of the life that I WANT to grow, if anything, its helped the good stuff prosper. Anyone who has a problem keeping microfauna alive probably just needs to rethink how they have there plumbing setup.

UV sterilizers work on proven scientific principles. Enough UV exposure causes degredation of DNA, the building block of life.

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(edited)

I've heard rumors about your setup Chip. Definitly looks well thoughout and organized....at least compared to mine.

To ensure a decent pod population in the main tank, I also use one of those plastic betta display things that suction-cup to the inside of the tank. Like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/keep-BETTA-fighting-fi...tem280087421844

I've got it over on the top back left and have grape caulerpa growing in it. It has slits on the bottom that the algae grows out of to feed the tangs, and I have it just below the water level so it also grows out the top. I still have to thin out the algae from time to time, and I see plenty of pods when I do so. Its funny too, my cleaner wrasse loves to swim near the top and bottom waiting for unexpecting pods to come out. Stalks them. So do my 2 dwarf angels. I definitly attibute it to my success in keeping the cleaner wrasse. He been with me now for close to year. Very fat and healthy. Strangly enough, it also eats flakes and nori too. Only one I've ever had that has done so.

 

I would definitly recommend this makeshift internal fuge to those who don't have the room for a separate tank to use as a refugium. Its what I'll be using once I downsize to just my 42gal hexagon.

Edited by jamesbuf
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