rt502

I've had a tiny biota mandarin in a Spec V growout (lots of rock) for roughly three months. I feed a mix of frozen baby brine, a micro pellet called first bites, and a little bit of LRS (for a trimma goby). He DID NOT eat frozen or prepared food for the first few weeks - I had seeded the tank with a large amount of pods months beforehand and didn't add the mandarin until the pods covered the front glass, and I'll still need to replenish every few months. He has since begun to swim to the top of the water when I walk up to the tank in anticipation of the mix. He has about doubled in size, so the growout is working, but I'd highly recommend against getting a mandarin if you don't have a large pod population to begin with. As with others, mine was shy and refused the prep food until he was comfortable. Because the system is so small and I feed so heavily, I do a 2.5 gallon water change every 10 days or so. I'll move him to the larger tank when he's fully outgrown his current setup. I paid about $90 for him at tropical lagoon.

LRS herbivore blend would be worth a shot.

It's funny how the former 'it' corals are growing beautifully but don't seem to engender the same sort of "oh no, can't lose it" feeling a few years later (for ex. "there's my lovely Walt Disney being strangled by rastas" lol). Per usual, everything looks bomb, and newer corals continue to have ridiculous names. Love how the bottom is filling out. Also, those nems you sold me have about doubled in size. Do you still keep any fish in there or is it corals/inverts only at this point?

Have had anemones die via getting stuck in powerheads and disintegrating in tanks as small as 5g. In my experience, the amount of damage a dead anemone causes is overblown, so long as you remove the pieces and use carbon/floss. I wouldn't do a change larger than 50%, especially if your fish and corals seem to be doing okay. If anything, do the large volume change and then do a series of smaller changes over the subsequent days. When my decent size rbta got shredded in the 5g, the hammers and zoa's were angry for a few days but were just fine, and the fish didn't really seem to notice at all. Years ago I had a very large rbta bite the dust in a 40g, and I lost nothing, despite not even running carbon. A guy in the forum has a tank with like, 30 anemones that all died within days and the fish and most of the corals were unharmed. Keep an eye on things, but unless you notice some serious struggling, it'll probably be okay.

We're all complicit in the nasty side of keeping ornamental marine fish. We can try to mitigate our negative impact on the overall environment and on the lives of the fish themselves by purchasing aquacultured fish and corals when possible and doing our best to source our wild-caught purchases to areas that are known to be more humane and have fewer animals killed in transport. We can make ourselves feel better by arguing that the hobby brings awareness to the creatures of the ocean and can spur compassion and funding for various environmental initiatives, etc. Really though, most of us just want to have beautiful fish and corals in our homes, and are willing to accept the relative harm that the industry itself causes. However, that can be said about many things. Do you eat meat? You're causing harm to the environment. Driving a car that gets less-than-ideal mileage given your own budget, especially if you drive for fun? Damaging the environment. Purchase timber that isn't a fast growing and sustainable type to use for projects? Damage. Play a sport like golf that destroys local environments and uses an enormous amount of water? damage. Etcetcetc. The overall impact of our individual choices is relatively very small, and the best we can do, unless we have an absolute moral issue with a specific activity, is to act in good faith and cause the least harm in achieving our goals (in our case, keeping and growing pretty fish and corals in a window box filled with saltwater). In my own case, if there's a fish I like that I know I can take good care of and there's an aquacultured option, I buy it, because it also is more likely to survive, even if it's double the price of a wild-caught specimen. However, I still have a few wrasses and a blue spot puffer that I really like and they aren't available aquacultured, so I made the arguably immoral choice to purchase them, and have since justified the purchase to myself by feeding them high quality foods and taking care of their environment. That said, that has not always been the case, and I've been directly responsible for the deaths of many fish due to a lack of knowledge and user error, and I did a ton of research beforehand. I assume that most of us have been through that phase and many others remain there. I'd imagine that a forum like Wamas will have among the most knowledgable and humane reekeepers, so there's a lot of preaching to the choir here, but most don't really care all that much. These arguments seem to pop up on this board every few years and generally elicit the same reaction. The very long-term reefkeepers will argue that things have improved considerably over the past couple of decades and that it's possible for the industry to be relatively sustainable. It may or may not be better, but the overall impact of the hobby is pretty undeniably negative. I think that, so long as we acknowledge it, it's no worse than many, many other choices we make daily that are almost universally accepted and just as damaging, if not moreso than keeping pretty fish and corals in saltwater boxes..

Have you tried leaving a clam or mussel in the tank for them to pick at during the day (tied to a rock so it doesn't get pushed around)? You just remove it at the end of the day so that it doesn't cloud up the tank, but they can also be a good transition food that is relatively cheap.

Used to buy regularly from tropical lagoon. Had a cbb that ate the worms, but he went nuts for LRS, so you may want to give it a try as a transition food.

Nice tank you got there. You can get a cheap black yoga mat at five below and cut it to size if you don't want to drop $20+ for an 'aquarium leveling mat.' I have a lagoon 25 and it works fine under it. It'd probably be fine with the blanket, but why risk it when you technically don't have anything in there to kill yet?

If ocellaris or a percula, it shouldn't be too bad if you find a considerably smaller clown (ideally the smallest juvenile you can find) and use a breeder box. If you don't have a breeder box, you can add the smaller fish and keep an eye on them and separate if the aggression kicks up. Worst experience I've had with the roughly 6 pairs I've had was a maroon/ocellaris hybrid female that nearly beat a black ocellaris to death over the course of a few weeks before finally accepting him. The black clown was ragged for months, but they ended up forming a really strong bond. Regardless, you'll want to have a separate small quarantine tank up and ready in the event that the female is hyper aggressive and a threat to kill the new clown. Rehoming clowns is relatively easy in the area and some of the LFS' will take them back for credit if the pairing is unsuccessful (of course clarify before purchase).

Very nice. What light are you running?

Had a 20g Nuvo at my office a few year's back. Coworkers loved dropping by and checking out the fish, and with the 2 clowns and pistol shrimp/goby pair it was relatively easy to maintain (smart ato for top off, and heavy feedings before the weekend). I'd do a 5 gallon water change every few weeks and only kept hard soft corals and lps. That said, they shut the power off in the (government) building over a long weekend with no warning, and I lost everything, including the clown pair and goby I'd had for 3 years. It was pretty devastating. Even if you're familiar with your office's power situation, I'd be sure to add a backup battery. Otherwise, I'd do it again - the fish were peaceful company.

Yeah man. I was 'this' close to picking up a baby CBB to keep for 6 months or so, just because I enjoyed the process of weaning them onto prepared foods, and finding a new home for a healthy CBB is a cinch. Yours is obviously in good hands. Your tank looks great.

Was the CBB the reason for the emergency LRS post? Had one a few years ago that was my fave fish ever, and loved him some LRS. Only thing I dislike about my lagoon 25 is that it's 1/4 the size of a proper CBB tank.

Def enjoys it. He'd be running or pecking if he didn't. Has to feel good.

Ugh, your tank is amazing. So many colors and personalities. Love it.

Also, that video you posted is great.

I agree with Origami that regulated and environmentally sound collection practices are possible. That said, the industry probably isn't set up to support it on a global scale. Maybe that will change, but the incentive structure for collection still encourages destructive collection methods throughout most of the world. Hawaii is in the unique position of being regulated by the US government, whereas a large number of the other countries that collect and ship ornamental fish are developing. The most problematic regions from which fish are collected are still the largest exporters of ornamental marine fish (Singapore, Thailand, Philippines, etc), and the passage and enforcement of ornamental fish collection regulations is pretty low on their priority list, and wholesalers and marine shops are incentivized to purchase from them. It's difficult to find data on, for example, the percent of fish that are killed in collection and transport, but the WWF estimated the number to be roughly 80% (Scientific American article linked at the bottom of the page), which is insane, and not subjective. That's not counting those fish that die within months due to disease or negligence, or the impact that removing those fish has on the collection areas (that's not counting corals). Until the cost to someone along the supply chain is so egregious that it changes the incentives and behavior of the collectors, wholesalers, aquarium shops, and consumers, the hobby as a whole will continue to exist on a morally gray line. I'm sure others will vehemently disagree. I understand the very specific Hawaii example. It's a great model that will hopefully spread and be sustainable. In the future, it's possible that the ornamental marine hobby will be sustainable and good for the environment, but there's a very long way to go before we can start to argue that it's beneficial on the whole. There are pockets of the hobby that are doing wonderful things, as discussed re. Hawaii/captive-breeding/coral propagation, and hopefully they'll spread, but the relatively low cost of fish/corals for those in this club that care about environmental health is driven by the vast majority that don't. The marine ornamental hobby will exist whether we have those people trying to improve it or not, so I'm glad we have groups like Wamas to at least try to plant the seeds for the future. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/tropical-depression-your-saltwater-fish-tank-may-be-killing-the-ocean/

Origami, you're right. 90% was on the high side in the study, and by all accounts it's much better now. On the whole, the hobby of keeping reef fish and corals is probably bad for the ecosystems from which they're collected, at least up to now. It's pretty inarguable. That said, If we reach a point where 95%+ of the fish and corals for sale are captive-bred, the hobby probably would be net neutral or even positive, if propagation and reintroduction efforts continue to grow. I just think it's disingenuous for most to argue that what we as hobbyists are doing is intrinsically good, given the industry we support. Again, I'm as guilty as anyone else, but I'm not trying to justify it as anything other than a hobby I keep because I enjoy keeping the beautiful ecosystems in my home. No different than someone who eats meat just accepting that the majority of meat production is bad for the environment (I eat meat). As far as the club itself, as others have pointed out, it's the exception. Most people in this forum are familiar with everything discussed and seem to make it a point to try and make the ethical choice when possible. As Gmerek also pointed out, it also keeps the propagation in-house for the most part and keeps corals in the ocean by satiating our desire for the awesome corals available, and also provides info for new reefkeepers so that they don't make the same mistakes we all did.

A 2008 NOAA report estimated that 90% of the 11 million tropical fish that enter the U.S. each year are caught using cyanide. Yes, it's illegal, but it's still a major problem. We all also generally accept, either explicitly or implicitly, that a significant percent of fish and corals harvested for the aquarium trade die within the first couple of months of capture, either during capture, transport, or due to disease. We also accept that the industry allows for the death of a large percent of otherwise healthy fish and coral that do make it through the capture process and end up in inadequate setups. I doubt there are many among us who haven't killed many fish due to human error. It's just part of the hobby. We can acknowledge the harm and not pretend that we're helping much of anything (aside from, for example, the guy with the classroom tanks). We do it because it's interesting, and corals and saltwater fish are beautiful. Comparing reefkeeping to hunting is also pretty misleading. Unless you're talking about specific situations where a fish is harming an ecosystem and needs to be controlled (lionfish, etc), it's much more likely that the collection is harming the underlying ecosystem. Hobbyists also aren't contributing nearly the same amount of money for conservation via licensing, and we continue to support some pretty awful practices by continuing to purchase wild-caught fish from parts of the world where we know the harvesters are doing harm. I understand the analogy, but the few reserves are a drop in the bucket. The one saving grace of the reefkeeping hobby are the successful captive-breeding and coral propagation programs. It's nice to know that that vast majority of clownfish sold are captive-bred. Hopefully soon that will be the case with tangs and other highly desirable fish. There's also been some nice progress made in reintroducing corals to reefs that were propagated elsewhere. I guess to answer your question, there isn't a very good answer unless you solely purchase captive-bred fish and corals from vendors you know treat their fish humanely. I have a tangaroa goby and a number of shrimp, so that wouldn't be me.

If you don't have a bunch of sps, a Toby or valentini puffer would be fun. They're not expensive, relatively, and they have a ton of personality. I had a Toby for years that acted like a puppy. If not, there are some really nice, more expensive fairy wrasses that would be nice if you have a decent amount of rock work.

If you want to keep the sand turned and don't mind a bit of an avant garde look, you could always go with a pistol shrimp. They're constantly moving the sand to create their burrows and don't actually rely on turning over the sandbed to eat (though they'll happily eat any food in the sand). I currently have a pair in my nano and have had them in larger tanks and they've always kept the sand clean.

There are a few long discussions in the archives about dinos. Bluntly, they suck, but it's possible to keep them in check. Blackout periods and aggressive manual siphoning are a good start. Others have stopped water changes, started dosing vodka, etc. I nearly shut my tank down at one point because of them and then decided to remove as much as I could see and do a series of 3 day blackouts over the course of a few months. My fish and corals were pissed, but it did the job.

Light and clean (but not too clean) water for nems, along with at least some water movement. If the fish were always okay, it was probably the light and flow. Was it a reef light? What were the settings? It doesn't have to be anything fancy (I use a $60 macegrow on my nano and the nem is beautifully colored up and growing - not affiliated but link below). If you have the correct lighting, did you ramp it up or blast the nems with light was right? As for flow, was the nem receiving direct or indirect flow from the powerhead? More information about your setup would help. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B079JTB5Q5/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Sound like a pistol or mantis shrimp. I have two tiger pistols in my tank and I often hear loud clacks in the middle of the night when they're hunting or fighting with each other. My larger snails and hermits have been okay, but they killed every small hermit and snail. If you purchased real live rock, you probably have a hitchhiker. There are various threads you can search on wamas for how to find and capture them.

I've got gsp - I plan on gluing a piece to the bottom of the tank tomorrow. I need to pick up some xenia and some dead rock, although the tank is already seeded with a very seasoned and algae covered marine pure cube, so I'm not worried about a big cycle and I may end up with a hair algae mat instead. I have a very small hob filter running at max speed into filter floss, a cheap heater that I used with a betta for years, and a cheap light. It's not a reef light, so even gsp may have trouble growing, but the tank is near a window and receives indirect sunlight, so maybe that'll be enough. I don't plan on using a powerhead. The goal here is to literally do the least amount of work on the cheapest tank with the cheapest but attractive pest corals and see what happens. I'll get a pair of ocellaris to put in there at some point and will test the parameters every once in a while to make sure it's safe for them, but I have a 5 gallon overstocked spec v that I barely touch aside from top offs and cleaning the glass, and everything is healthy and growing. Should be fun. Or a disaster.