SPS Dull/Bleached/Dying (?) - Help!

[Fsp2]

I'm ready to tear my hair out (what little remains).  Tank is relatively new (@6 months old).  Parameters are perfect.  1375 mg, 470 ca (a little high), alk 9, ph 8.1, PO4 = 0, NO3 = 0.  150 gallon tall tank.  2 30w gen 4 pros (60% power).  2 mp40s @50% power.  Tank is 30" tall & 4' Wide.

 

Have a beautiful frogspawn bought locally along with an acropora frag and a pavona frag that were doing ridiculously well.  Deep Purple Acropora growing and branching (small, but good for a month in a relatively new tank).  Frogspawn fully extended and swaying in the current.  pavona not really growing noticeably, but fully extended and great gold coloration.  Now the trouble starts.

 

The acropora was one of several items purchased in a cherry corals live sale.  Some blastos are doing well (bright red, puffy, and even spawning little ones.  A paly and a zoa doing ok as well once I realized they needed a different spot in the tank.  Lost a few other zoas, though, and the other acropora was basically white (though polyps still extending).  Favia doing well as well (coloration, never saw sweepers except for the first day in the tank).

 

Thought we'd sorted out the problem when we moved the zoas and they started coming back well.

 

Then went on a binge (those live sales will get you every time!).  Got a bucket load of beauties from the WWC sale two weeks ago.  Having learned my lesson, I left them all on their frag plugs so I could move them around the tank more easily.  Two acropora died within 48 hours (thank god for the 10 day guarantee .... they weren't doing well to begin with).  The others were beautiful when they arrived, but have slowly, over the last two weeks, gone incredibly dull.  They look like the live rock around them in color.  The chalices are fine but fading.  One of the original blastos is now retracting a bit but that may be due to increased flow (See below).  Ricordeas are doing amazingly well (shocker).  Favia has started to fade after being moved lower in the tank.  But the acropora all look either bleached or brown.  Just dull.  Polyps are somewhat extended on most, but not the way they should be.  Same with chalices.

 

I've tried what I can think of.  Too much light?  Move them lower and let them acclimate.  Too little light?  Move the favia back up to get color back.  Too little flow?  Turn up the mp40s to 70%.  Now that looks like it's tossing the frogspawn around a little hard and the chalice/blasto doesn't seem to be as happy.  Millipora, once moved into more current, is now extending again.

 

I can't figure out whether this is light, or flow, or even nutrients (too low?).  I've taken out half the cheato in the fuge and I haven't run GFO in over 3 months.  I don't have a heavy fish load, but I'm considering upping my feeding to get the NO3 and PO4 up a little (from 0 for both now).

 

Two small side notes.  Alk was a little low last week (closer to 7.5-8.0) which I adjusted last night during the water change.  The protein skimmer was off for about a week because we used two part epoxy that sent it into overdrive.  Both issues have since been resolved.

 

I'm hoping you guys can come up with something.  The colors on these corals should be beautiful.  They were when they arrived and the photos are awesome.  The ones that are thriving from two months ago are still beautiful.  I realize I've tossed out a whole bunch of information, but I'm just hoping something jumps out and says "this is clearly the issue".  Help!!

[madweazl]

There seems to be some correlation between higher alkalinity levels and low nutrient levels leading to poor results with acros (exacerbated with higher light levels); with that said, some of the most respected names in the industry don't believe these potential issues are directly related. Your corals aren't going to die any time soon from lower light levels so I'd start by dropping that a bit (40% max intensity perhaps) to eliminate that as a factor. Discontinue dosing alkalinity and calcium until you get back down to around 8.0 which seems to be the acceptable range for lower nutrient levels. As for the MP40s, what wave form are you using? Are they in sync or anti-sync? If anti-sync, I dont believe 50% power will be causing any issues for your corals unless a pump is blowing directly on it. 

 

Salinity? Alkalinity swings throughout the day? 

Edited August 16, 2017 by madweazl

[Fsp2]

I want to lower the lights, but I'm a little nervous. The depth of the tank is much greater than most others. I'm worried they won't get enough. I'll drop back to 40% overall, but will keep my fingers crossed for the guys towards the bottom.

[madweazl]

I wouldnt be too nervous about lowering intensity levels; there are very few corals that actually need the ridiculous PAR levels some people claim or use (e.i. 300+). There isn't an acro out there you cant keep alive at 100 PAR, it may not have the color you desire but it will live and grow. You can keep most LPS happy well under 50 PAR. Moving your corals frequently will induce more stress so I'd certainly avoid that; if you think there is an issue with flow and lighting, adjust the sources of those instead (i.e. the pumps and lights). 

[gmerek2]

You said you adjusted alk with a water change. Do small water changes (but more often) a large water change can cause an alk swing among other swings (temperature, salinity, etc)shocking sps coral. Any alk swing is bad we know that for sure and in my opinion alk should slowly be adjusted only with a drip doser .2dkh max per day in an sps tank. Any fluctuation and i see problems though. If it doesn't test the same every time I get worried. Also leaving skimmer off can make the pH fluctuate as the tank isn't blowing off CO2? I don't know a lot about that but it might be something you want to look into. It's so important that some people run skimmer intake to fresh air. SPS tanks that have the harder acros require a lot of attention to detail to keep colors and keep stuff alive it's a fun challenge

[madweazl]

You said you adjusted alk with a water change. Do small water changes (but more often) a large water change can cause an alk swing among other swings (temperature, salinity, etc)shocking sps coral. Any alk swing is bad we know that for sure and in my opinion alk should slowly be adjusted only with a drip doser .2dkh max per day in an sps tank. Any fluctuation and i see problems though. If it doesn't test the same every time I get worried. Also leaving skimmer off can make the pH fluctuate as the tank isn't blowing off CO2? I don't know a lot about that but it might be something you want to look into. It's so important that some people run skimmer intake to fresh air. SPS tanks that have the harder acros require a lot of attention to detail to keep colors and keep stuff alive it's a fun challenge

1 dKH per 24 hours is generally accepted to be fine (more than this has been documented to be fine but the other variables are unknown to me). In regard to the skimmer, it isn't dissipating CO2, it's dispersing the properties the air around the skimmer's air inlet has into the water. For our region this time of year, that is generally air that has more CO2 because we're keeping our windows shut and running the air conditioning. 

Edited August 16, 2017 by madweazl

[pizzaguy]

Zero nitrates and po4 would be my go to first. I have never had luck with those numbers. In fact, i had to dose po4 for almost a year to get things in order

[gmerek2]

What test kits are you using? Is the tank packed full of coral? I think it's pretty rare for a new tank to run too clean. Usually it's mature tanks packed with large corals. If the test kits are sensitive to low numbers the the problem is definitely tank too clean

[Fsp2]

Thanks all!! Good advice all around. A couple of notes that may help.

 

Dropped lights back to 40% for the time being. No adverse effects so far

 

Pumps are in anti-sync at 50%

 

I'm a bit of a nut about water changed. I do 5% twice per week. Takes all of 10 mins. Fairly certain that's not the cause.

 

The zero nutrients seems to be a consensus over on R2R as well. Started dosing some KNO3 to bring up the Nitrates, but any suggestions on adding P04? I've been over feeding the one fish and the critters in the tank, but we'll see. I do seem to have stopped the polyp loss, but haven't gotten much color back (the blue dot is back in the center of my Duncan's though and that's encouraging).

 

If nutrients being too low is an issue, should I remove the ROX carbon temporarily? Or is that mainly dissolved organics and not PO4/NO3?

 

Thanks again for all the advice!

[Fsp2]

Oh, and as for test kits. Salifert for Nitrate and Hanna Checker for PO4. Both sensitive to low numbers.

[zygote2k]

Maybe the corals were grown under different lights and now that they were shipped in darkness, then suddenly placed into your super bright aquarium, they reacted by browning or paling? Seems kind of a common thing nowadays. And the fact that theres no food for them other than the bright lights, causes them further stress.

 

When you hear hooves, think horses, not unicorns.

[YHSublime]

If it's lack of nutrients that's the problem, I wouldn't change anything except for feeding your fish more often and larger portions, win win.

 

When you hear hooves, think horses, not unicorns.

 

Love this. 

[gmerek2]

+1 I ran into problems with dosing nitrate. Food is a much safer way and much more natural.

[madweazl]

+1 I ran into problems with dosing nitrate. Food is a much safer way and much more natural.

 

Safer?