single 1.5" drain - suggestions for catastrophe avoidance and quieting?

[roni]

Hi,

 

I've got an upcoming move and downsize coming.   I picked up a really nice 105 rimless a while back and have decided to go with that in the new build.  

 

The problem I'm trying to solve is what to do about the plumbing.  My previous tank was basement plumbed with a internal bean animal overflow, which I loved.  The current tank has a single 1.5" bulkhead in the center draining down with a nice low profile black overflow box on the tank side.  The center of this hole is 5" below the top of the tank.

 

Ideally, I'd love to do a synergy shadow overflow (basically a modified herbie/bean overflow).  However, that requires 2 drilled holes centered at about 3.5-4" below the tank top like this pdf:

 

http://www.synergyreef.com/Manuals/Synergy_Reef_Drilling_Template_16_Shadow.pdf

 

The back is not tempered and my options are 

 

1) Use the single drain 

        Problems I see are:

           a) noise - I bought a really nice aquabox sump which has a great bubble trap/muffler.  I think by partially submerging the return and dialing the flow from my return pump back (DC pump), I should be able to minimize this.  It's in a place that doesn't require absolute silence so I think I can get past this

 

           b) lack of an emergency drain - this really worries me.  The tank is going over new hardwood and I may be sleeping in the garage if I flood the room.   The overflow is well designed to avoid an intruder from getting in but you never know.

 

 

 

2) Drill for the external overflow.  Problem I need to overcome

 

centered hole now.  Capping the bulkhead would still make it too wide to install the overflow.  I'd have to figure out a way to close the hole to allow the overflow to get flush or put the overflow off center (which I think would look terrible and also not surface skim everything efficiently.   One option would be to narrow the bulkhead and use it as the return from the sump (reduce the size) and then have the new overflow slightly off center.  Not sure how that would look.  I'd love to have the silence and redundancy of the external but not sure how to do it...

 

 

Any ideas?

Edited December 3, 2016 by roni

[treesprite]

I know exactly how you feel about having only one drain hole. Are there any return holes? The 120 (I still haven't set up), has only one drain, also a 1.5. However, the tank has 2 return holes up in top corners, one or both of which may end up being drain holes.

Edited December 3, 2016 by treesprite

[roni]

yeah, unfortunately.  Honestly, if it weren't there I'd just drill it for the shadow overflow. It was up for about 2 years and I think it would probably be fine, but I'm gone a fair amount and with Murphy's law, it would have a snail lodge in there when I wasn't there :(

[treesprite]

That happened to me before with a tank that has only one drain, snail got stuck in the hole. Came home to find water all over the floor.

[Jon Lazar]

Roni,

 

If I understand correctly, using a bulkhead to plug the existing hole will block the Synergy overflow.  I'm guessing you have the DSA Neo 105 tank.  Here's some ideas to make the Synergy overflow work.

 

1.  Laminate a large panel of glass over the back exterior of the tank, and drill two holes for the Synergy to fit.  That leaves a hockey-puck shaped depression on the inside.  I think the Synergy will cover part of the depression.  Lay the tank on it's back and fill the depression with liquid epoxy.

 

2.  Plug the existing hole with a bulkhead.  Have someone build you a custom Synergy-like overflow that straddles the bulkhead.

 

3.  Get a new tank.  Seriously.  If looking at some goofy overflow/bulkhead contraption is going to distract you, you'll be happier in the long run with something visually pleasing.

 

 

An idea for a non-Synergy overflow:

 

1.  Keep the current overflow.  Drill the back, within the overflow's footprint, and add one (Herbie) or two (Beananimal) bulkheads.  Put ells in the overflow side of the bulkhead.  Run pipe up from the ell to near the surface.  Three bulkheads probably won't fit if they're all lined up from left to right.  But if you stagger the heights of the extra bulkheads, you'll have a lot more space because the pipes are much narrower than the bulkheads.  I'll draw a picture.

Edited December 3, 2016 by Jon Lazar

[Jon Lazar]

[roni]

Great pic and great ideas Jon.  So, I've got a couple thoughts.  I looked at the overflow that the tank came with and it looks very, very unlikely to allow a snail to get in to block.  I'm also thinking about just not doing many snails in the new setup.  They don't do that much imo, especially with tangs present and mature aquascape.  

 

My thought was to either leave alone or possibly drill the back in one of the corners with a small bulkhead ending with a 90 up with the top above the expected level of the overflow.  This would be a straight shot down to my sump and would serve as the emergency drain.  Then I could submerge the other "main" drain from the overflow and use a gate valve and the controllable DC to get a full siphon (or near full siphon).  Between this and a nice bubble trap prior to the filter sock in the sump, I think I'd probably have a handle on the noise.  I don't think one extra 1' bulkhead in the corner would detract too much from the overall look of the tank..

 

thoughts?  

[zygote2k]

I think a single 1.5" drain and corect overflow box will serve you well withou fear of anything getting into the pipes to clog it, unless you're allowing large fish to access the sump.

Drill a 1" return on the back panel and be done with it.

[Jon Lazar]

I looked at the overflow that the tank came with and it looks very, very unlikely to allow a snail to get in to block.

 

I ran my last tank for more than 10 years with a simple 1.25" durso and a lot of snails.  There simply wasn't enough room for anything big to get past the overflow teeth.  It was quiet, but not silent.

[treesprite]

I would feel more comfortable with one drain hole if more people could attest to having only one without any problems.

[malacoda]

As the owner of a 24g rimless with a single drain pipe (via a Marine Depot HOB overflow box) I too initially had the same concern.

 

I found my solution in the choice/design of my sump.

 

If the return chamber of the sump is sized so that the volume of water needed to keep your return pump submerged is LESS than the volume between the normal DT water level and the actual top of the tank, you will not have any risk of the DT overflowing and flooding the floor.

 

However, if the return chamber of the sump you already picked up required a larger volume of water to keep the pump submerged than the 'spare' volume of space available in the top of your DT, then yeah, you do run the risk of an overflow if the drain becomes clogged. (Although I think it would take a pretty friggin' big snail or critter to block a 1.5" pipe.)

 

As for noise...

 

Lower flow through the drain will of course mean less noise from overflow. Some people also stick a piece of airline tubing into their HOB overflow pipe to allow it to 'breathe' a little easier/quieter (I personally haven't had much luck with it.). Maybe it also work on an in-tank overflow box.

 

Noise from the bubbling as water and air exit the drain pipe in the sump can be significantly reduced by what some folks call a 'reverse durso' on the end of the drain pipe. I'm actually putting one of these on my drain pipe within the next week or so (more to reduce salt creep caused by the bubbles breaking on the water surface in my sump than to quiet any noise they make) but my pvc parts are literally on a UPS truck as we speak so I can't comment on the actual effectiveness of one just yet.

Edited December 9, 2016 by malacoda

[roni]

All, thanks for the input.  I'm leaning towards just capping the center and installing a synergy in the corner.  I think it will ultimately lead to the quietest, least worrisome solution.  I do think the single would have been fine but Murphy's law and all.

 

John, let me know how that solution works for you (reverse durso).  

[malacoda]

Will do. And have to say, the Synergy oveflow is indeed a nice looking piece of kit. If I ever end up drilling my tank, it's probably the way I'd go as well.