brad908 November 10, 2014 Share November 10, 2014 Took a trip to the California Academy of Sciences on 11/09, and between that and Giga's tanks, put me over the edge. Equipment 18" Low Iron Cube 70w FNI Metal Halide DoAqua! Lily pipes Eheim 2213 canister filter Hydor Inline 200w heater Live stuff Red Mangroves - Ordered a few 16" on 11/10 Chocolate chip stars - When ready Bangaii or yellow striped cardinals - When Ready Cleaner Shrimp Various crabs Thanks for looking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 10, 2014 Author Share November 10, 2014 Need feedback : Place mangroves in a mix of mud and sand into a 12" cube and place the cube in the corner of the tank. I will then take rock to cover the 12" cube Make a deep 6-7" sandbed and have the mangroves in the middle of the tank California Academy of Sciences This is sort of the corner look I am talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 You will probably have a better time lighting what ever else you are trying to grow by putting them in the corner. Why mud? I have seen them grown just suspended in the air, why not just sand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 You will probably have a better time lighting what ever else you are trying to grow by putting them in the corner. Why mud? I have seen them grown just suspended in the air, why not just sand? Mud is more natural for them. Waiting to hear back from this guy who has done some killer mangrove tanks. Not sure if I am going to be growing anything else besides the mangroves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 (edited) That looks horrible, tbh. More like this Edited November 11, 2014 by brad908 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kallor November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 That looks horrible, tbh. More like this <<snip>> Oooo now that is lovely. Throw in the tank inhabitants you are planning on adding, and you will really have something cool! I'm excited to see this build progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 I was just showing you they don't need mud. I love the picture you just put up. If you are going in that direction maybe something that is not dead center, but has some rock in it and LPS with one or two fish? Something more along the lines of ChrisTran's tank: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 Brad, you've grown some wicked mangroves in the past, why not do what you did the ADA cube in Alexandria? I say scratch the rock look, go with the mud/sand. Either way, I think it will be a little whilst before you have to worry about them being thick enough or large enough to worry about scape/surrounding area. I don't think you should worry about mud either, but JMO. Trockafella grew mangroves in a vase by the window just switching out the saltwater, I thinking with enough light and water, they will grow, but you also know that first hand. As for placement/inhabitants, why don't you do a bunch of mangroves and throw in some sexy shrimp or some type of cool inverts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 (edited) Oooo now that is lovely. Throw in the tank inhabitants you are planning on adding, and you will really have something cool! I'm excited to see this build progress! Thanks! Really excited for this one too I was just showing you they don't need mud. I love the picture you just put up. If you are going in that direction maybe something that is not dead center, but has some rock in it and LPS with one or two fish? Something more along the lines of ChrisTran's tank: No lps. Clams if I don't do chocolate starfish I don't understand why that tank has a bonsai lol Brad, you've grown some wicked mangroves in the past, why not do what you did the ADA cube in Alexandria? I say scratch the rock look, go with the mud/sand. Either way, I think it will be a little whilst before you have to worry about them being thick enough or large enough to worry about scape/surrounding area. I don't think you should worry about mud either, but JMO. Trockafella grew mangroves in a vase by the window just switching out the saltwater, I thinking with enough light and water, they will grow, but you also know that first hand. As for placement/inhabitants, why don't you do a bunch of mangroves and throw in some sexy shrimp or some type of cool inverts? I know mud isn't necessary, but I'm looking to what will be the best. The mangroves I bought are all already over 16inches with great roots. Chocolate chip starfish, shrimp and crabs are the plan. Edited November 11, 2014 by brad908 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 (edited) Thanks for the input guys. It is hard to explain, here are some pics to clear up some confusion plant the mangroves in sand or mud. Then hide the small cube in rock. Corner. Black would be removed Middle The big tank would just have .5-1" sand bed Edited November 11, 2014 by brad908 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pants November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 This is a bit out of left field, but take a look at this page: http://www.fatalii.net/Bonsai_Chiles_Bonchi about a 1/4 of the way down he shows how to get cool roots by playing a rock under the roots of the bonsai. You can later remove the rock. The trouble a lot of people run into with mangrove tanks is the roots just go straight down and don't spread out giving that cool look (and wonderful habitat. If you have something obstruct the roots and force them to spread out then you can sort of train them to grow fanned out like you see in more natural environments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 This is a bit out of left field, but take a look at this page: http://www.fatalii.net/Bonsai_Chiles_Bonchi about a 1/4 of the way down he shows how to get cool roots by playing a rock under the roots of the bonsai. You can later remove the rock. The trouble a lot of people run into with mangrove tanks is the roots just go straight down and don't spread out giving that cool look (and wonderful habitat. If you have something obstruct the roots and force them to spread out then you can sort of train them to grow fanned out like you see in more natural environments. Just did a quick browse and looks very good. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 This is a bit out of left field, but take a look at this page: http://www.fatalii.net/Bonsai_Chiles_Bonchi about a 1/4 of the way down he shows how to get cool roots by playing a rock under the roots of the bonsai. You can later remove the rock. The trouble a lot of people run into with mangrove tanks is the roots just go straight down and don't spread out giving that cool look (and wonderful habitat. If you have something obstruct the roots and force them to spread out then you can sort of train them to grow fanned out like you see in more natural environments. Awesome link, and idea! Brad, I vote corner and bring the rock down, clams on the sand bed. Or skip the internal box and do like Pants showed above! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20LogR November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 I would say back corner, by the time you get the center tank covered in rock, there wont be much room on the bottom. Or you'll have a fake looking rock wall below your mangroves, which wont look very natural. What's the minimum depth of sand/mud you need? maybe go with a shorter container? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 mangrove roots that are exposed are merely a function of time = age of plant. Branching is the same although thoughtful pruning at the correct time aids it. There is no hurrying this. While mud may be considered "natural", it is clearly not needed and if you have any sand sifters, it becomes quite messy. Two main pest issues for mangroves are scale and mealy bug. Scale is the worst and difficult to treat. Mealy bug not as difficult. If you keep them long enough, you will likely encounter both at one point or another. water flow in and around the roots is fine but is not mandatory. Be aware of mangroves that were rooted in fresh water - you must acclimate them to saltwater similar to hypo salinity Contrary to popular mistaken belief, mangroves are not a great source of natural filtration like an algae scrubber can be unless you have a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 Awesome link, and idea! Brad, I vote corner and bring the rock down, clams on the sand bed. Or skip the internal box and do like Pants showed above! Leaning towards no internal box, but mangroves in the corner. I'm holding back on clams because I really wanted this to be basically a no maintenance tank, as I really want all my focus on the main tank. We will see. I would say back corner, by the time you get the center tank covered in rock, there wont be much room on the bottom. Or you'll have a fake looking rock wall below your mangroves, which wont look very natural. What's the minimum depth of sand/mud you need? maybe go with a shorter container? 0, you can float them. In an old tank I had them in about a 1" sand bed. mangrove roots that are exposed are merely a function of time = age of plant. Branching is the same although thoughtful pruning at the correct time aids it. There is no hurrying this. While mud may be considered "natural", it is clearly not needed and if you have any sand sifters, it becomes quite messy. Two main pest issues for mangroves are scale and mealy bug. Scale is the worst and difficult to treat. Mealy bug not as difficult. If you keep them long enough, you will likely encounter both at one point or another. water flow in and around the roots is fine but is not mandatory. Be aware of mangroves that were rooted in fresh water - you must acclimate them to saltwater similar to hypo salinity Contrary to popular mistaken belief, mangroves are not a great source of natural filtration like an algae scrubber can be unless you have a ton. Appreciate all the great info! The longest I've kept mangroves for was about 7-8 months, but hope to have this tank going for a while. The mangroves I ordered are from saltwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lutz123 November 11, 2014 Share November 11, 2014 I like the back corner. I have a mangrove tank in planning stages (though I have the propagules). My understanding is that eventually they will break a glass tank. I am sure that's years down the road but somethingto consider. My preference is mud - not my favorite look but a more natural environment for the mangroves. Most seem to use the mesh aquaponics baskets with liners. I have been toying with how to hide that. For what it's worth, the tank you showed is one of my favorites...but I seem to remember that it crashed with no explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 It was time/thinking about having another kid. It was such a great tank "Hey guys, after much talk with my wife and thinking, I'm going to take a break from saltwater. We may have another kid in the near future and with haveing so many hobbies my time is becoming too thin. Im gonna focus on my bonsai and vivariums- since ther is no work compared reef tanks. I'm just gonna put the mangroves in a bonsai pot and add them to my collection. I have had a reef tank for 7 years in some fashion or another and with this tank crash I think it's time to take a few years off. This tank will most likly turn into a vivarium as I still enjoy the reef hobby just don't have the time for so many hobbies. I will also be selling of most my stuff as well. It's bitter sweet but I think it the right call right now in my life. Also this is not good bye as I'll still update my vivarium and be on here I just won't have a reef tank for now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 11, 2014 Author Share November 11, 2014 Wasn't a fan of the rock he added in the last fts tho. The sea grass is nice idea He just started up an ADA 60f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueTricia November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Love this idea Brad. I like the mangroves in the corner. You should get some stingrays to go along with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 12, 2014 Author Share November 12, 2014 Love this idea Brad. I like the mangroves in the corner. You should get some stingrays to go along with it! Haha, wish I had the room for some rays. Figured I would post these here too, so people can see some of my inspirations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Very cool looking. If the mangrove is the main attraction then put it in the center so the knees (roots) can grow in all directions. I was just thinking you would not get much light if it was in the center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad908 November 12, 2014 Author Share November 12, 2014 Very cool looking. If the mangrove is the main attraction then put it in the center so the knees (roots) can grow in all directions. I was just thinking you would not get much light if it was in the center. Yeah, it will just be the mangroves, couple bangaii cardinals, and a couple chocolate chip stars. I want 95% of my aquarium energy on the other tank. Need this one to be as low maintenance as possible. I don't think I will be using the 18" cube, as I want some roots out of the water. I have an extra ADA 45p, 18"x10.6"x12", I will probably end up using instead. We will see. Planning and building is the best part of this hobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuffyGeos November 12, 2014 Share November 12, 2014 Yeah, it will just be the mangroves, couple bangaii cardinals, and a couple chocolate chip stars. I want 95% of my aquarium energy on the other tank. Need this one to be as low maintenance as possible. I don't think I will be using the 18" cube, as I want some roots out of the water. I have an extra ADA 45p, 18"x10.6"x12", I will probably end up using instead. We will see. Planning and building is the best part of this hobby. If you are going to go to all the trouble to set this up why not have a little larger tank so the roots can grow and you can see them below and above the water. A larger water body will also be easier to take care of, less fluctuations in temp and salinity. Something like a 2' x 2' x1'. or if you have a bar top or a long sofa table build something like a 36"x 18" x 12", or cut down a 55g that is 48" x 12" x 21" to only 12" high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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