biopellet experiences

[zygote2k]

So I'm running BP's on numerous maintenance tanks that are generally overfed and run typically high nitrates in the 75-150ppm range and have noticed some different things.

 

The 500 uses a BRS dual media reactor with phosgard and BP's. About 3 cups of each and powered by a MJ1200 which results in a trickle coming out the other end.  Nitrate was 75+ and after bring the reactors online, took nearly 4 months to drop the N to zero. The P dropped to zero after 6 months.

The tank has large fish, large clams, and large SPS colonies. I have to feed it 14 times per day to keep everything fed. Weekly service 7% w/c.

 

A 300 with 2) AVAST reactors- one with 2C phosban, the other with 4C BP. Nitrate was 100+.Powered by a Mag 7 and everything tumbles. Same story and same time frame. This tank has 34 fish and all corals placed in it wither away I believe due to N/P starvation. I took off the P reactor last week in hopes that it will return. Tank is fed 14x/day, twice weekly service with 8-16% w/c. All Euphylliads recede and die

 

My own tank- 120g, w/c every now and then, overfed, strong current, high diversity, alternative filtration. constant turnaround of critters. N was 120+ and P was 1.0+. Corals always grow here.

I put a large AVAST BP reactor with a kilo of BP's and a mag 7. BP's are in a huge mass at top of reactor and zero tumbling, lots of water flow thru reactor. I grew lots of cyano first 4 months and lots of algae on glass. Lazy maintenance man only scrapes glass evry now and then and it would often take an hour to scrub it all off with a soft sponge- very little scratches on my acrylic... Just this month, I noticed that the algae has disappeared and the water is noticeably clearer. I also noticed that the Euphyllias have been dying  and more recently at an accelerated rate. Zero N or P. Am upping feeding to 5x day.

 

I'm seeing that its very easy to starve certain corals in these conditions. In order to keep them and the fish happy and fed, the tank needs to be fed LOTS of food. I think this is a good thing as it will allow fishes to feed nearly constantly as they do in the wild. 

 

Thoughts?

[YHSublime]

As long as you can feed often, I think it's fantastic. Problem is being able to have a crazy feeding schedule.

[zygote2k]

feeding schedule is not a problem on the two tanks that get fed 12+ times per day- auto feeder does up to 36 and has a big hopper.

[YHSublime]

feeding schedule is not a problem on the two tanks that get fed 12+ times per day- auto feeder does up to 36 and has a big hopper.

Then I say rock and roll. I will attempt to follow suit, I think it's a great idea. Do you think what you feed makes a difference? Ie. frozen vs. pellets or flakes? Could you potentially feed more frozen less often and achieve the same results?

[zygote2k]

I rarely if ever feed frozen. I do Cyclopeeze powder, freeze dried plankton, rotifers, reef roids, flakes, pellets mixed together. Everything seems to like this blend and it has enough small particles to get to the tiny mouths of the tank.

[zygote2k]

I need to find out how to keep euphyllias and run BP's. Maybe I can have a continuous feed and keep N03 below 25ppm and P04 below 0.5

[YHSublime]

I need to find out how to keep euphyllias and run BP's. Maybe I can have a continuous feed and keep N03 below 25ppm and P04 below 0.5

This sounds (no science on my part) the most like a natural reef. Constant food but low enough nutrients. I only feed frozen, I tried pellets this week, my fish snuffed them. Maybe not after a week if no frozen.

[Squishie89]

Out of curiosity, why not carbon dose instead of BP? Or lessen the amount of BP so things aren't starving?

[zygote2k]

what carbon dose would be easier than BP? remember, most of these are on service tanks with little to no monitoring during the week(s). Find me an easier solution and I'll implement it.

[wangspeed]

I just went from Zeostart to BP. Too early for me to tell but I got sick of manual dosing 2x a day and shaking the rocks. I'm using a recirculating reactor so I can cut the effluent. I've always had near 0 nitrate and phosphates though.

 

 

--

Warren

[icsparks]

Why not dose the carbon with a dosing pump? You can set it to dose small amounts up to 24 times a day to minimize any O2 drop and allows uptake without high concentrations effecting PH if you use vinegar. Calculate your weekly amount needed place it in a container and let it do the rest.  

[DuffyGeos]

Out of curiosity, why not carbon dose instead of BP? Or lessen the amount of BP so things aren't starving?

 

+1 on using less biopellets? could you not cut the amount of biopellets in half so they are not cleaning the water so much?

[TrueTricia]

This sounds (no science on my part) the most like a natural reef. Constant food but low enough nutrients. I only feed frozen, I tried pellets this week, my fish snuffed them. Maybe not after a week if no frozen.

I feed almost exclusively pellets. Frozen is a treat for my guys. That being said, I think I need to do more to keep the corals fed. I think pellets give an overall good mix of foods.

[YHSublime]

I feed almost exclusively pellets. Frozen is a treat for my guys. That being said, I think I need to do more to keep the corals fed. I think pellets give an overall good mix of foods.

 

Sure. That is fine. But I think that there is a disconnect between what we feed our fish, and what they eat naturally. Look at any talk Paul B. has lectured, and it's summed up by: "Live Food, Blackworms, Brine Shrimp, DIY, I have a bottle in my tank, I have an anchor in my tank, I once ate a clown fish."

 

I'm obviously kidding, but I believe there is a method to that madness. Serve all the pellets and flakes you want, but I think there are some serious benefits to feeding frozen. There are those people that feed their dogs a "raw" diet, and some people probably say, "oh, they are fine with kibbles, or dry food." If I want to see success, I will create it, and It is my theory and firm belief, that it's accomplished with the right foods. So while I do poke fun at Paul B., I also agree with him. I will try to feed as close to a diet as I think a fish on a reef would see naturally. Now I don't feed "live" as often as I should, but I think that the next best is frozen.

 

Do I think that it makes sense to do it with a tank that is maintained by somebody else... no, Rob is doing as best as he can with that. But I am talking about my personal tank. Just some literal food for thought.

[icsparks]

+1 on DIY food.

 Back in the day when I had a large 180 fresh water tank. I would go to the local butcher and buy beef heart and fresh clams grind it up, add vitamins, flake food, garlic and gelatin place it the freezer and instant gumbo for the fish. 

[DuffyGeos]

Sure. That is fine. But I think that there is a disconnect between what we feed our fish, and what they eat naturally. Look at any talk Paul B. has lectured, and it's summed up by: "Live Food, Blackworms, Brine Shrimp, DIY, I have a bottle in my tank, I have an anchor in my tank, I once ate a clown fish."

 

I'm obviously kidding, but I believe there is a method to that madness. Serve all the pellets and flakes you want, but I think there are some serious benefits to feeding frozen. There are those people that feed their dogs a "raw" diet, and some people probably say, "oh, they are fine with kibbles, or dry food." If I want to see success, I will create it, and It is my theory and firm belief, that it's accomplished with the right foods. So while I do poke fun at Paul B., I also agree with him. I will try to feed as close to a diet as I think a fish on a reef would see naturally. Now I don't feed "live" as often as I should, but I think that the next best is frozen.

 

Do I think that it makes sense to do it with a tank that is maintained by somebody else... no, Rob is doing as best as he can with that. But I am talking about my personal tank. Just some literal food for thought.

 

I agree with this that fresh is the best. Is this possible for everyone- No. I have Anthias that get pellets 5 times a day and fresh at night, but that may get skipped if I am busy. My other tank gets pellets once to twice a day and fresh at the same time the other tank gets it. Our goal in general is to copy nature with the same quality of water, light, food, and throw it in a glass box so we can watch it. If the water is too clean some corals will not thrive, if it is too dirty the same.

 

If we feed them pellets that have everything they need in them they will probably be fine, are we missing something that nature provide...probably. I also think fish plumb up and can eat more with the fresh. I have seen my Anthias take down some seriously large pieces that would equal about 20 pellets, and he will not eat that many pellets at one feeding.

 

Think about us as humans, we eat all this processed crap and we all pretty much survive. Would everyone be a little thinner and healthier if we ate fruits, vegetable, and some meat and fish...probably.

 

It is all one big balancing act, and each tank is almost totally different. I think I have heard positives and negatives to almost every set up and way to run a tank. Biopellets work in my small tank at the moment....what is to say that if I take them out or mess with the quantity that it won't crash my tank, or trigger something else that causes a chain reaction?

[DuffyGeos]

+1 on DIY food.

 Back in the day when I had a large 180 fresh water tank. I would go to the local butcher and buy beef heart and fresh clams grind it up, add vitamins, flake food, garlic and gelatin place it the freezer and instant gumbo for the fish. 

 

Not a lot of cows swimming around in the ocean....just sayin'

[icsparks]

30 years ago store bought fish food wasn't that great. would never feed my reef tank beef heart today, but back then I did feed it to my triggers, groupers in my salt tank, and the oscar's and cats in the fresh water tank.  

[zygote2k]

I used to feed mouse heart and the rest of the mouse to the Queen Trigger at the pet store. It would eat crickets, pink rodents, parrot kibble, goldfish, and clown triggers.

[Sharkey18]

The trigger ate mice? Yikes!  That is crazy. 

 

As far as the original point, the tanks seems to be thriving on the mix of food that Rob is feeding, except for the Euphylliads, and it seems that the use of biopellets is the corresponding factor.

 

The tanks are being fed a lot so increasing the amount of food is unlikely to help. It would be interesting to see if frozen makes a difference but that doesn't seem like its possible to do on the maintenance tanks. Maybe you can try that on your home tank, just to see what happened. I would LOVE to know if frozen increases N and P more than dry. 

 

What about reducing the flow through the reactors so that it doesn't strip the water of all of the nutrients. Would that help increase the N and P a little? 

[paul b]

 

If we feed them pellets that have everything they need in them they will probably be fine, are we missing something that nature provide...probably.

If you feed pellets exclusively your fish are definitely missing something.  Pellets are made with "everything" fish need, then they are processed, cooked, dried and loaded with preservatives.  The vitamins and oils are gone even though they are listed on the package.  I question any un refrigerated  food with a shelf life of 6 months or a year.  If you look on the disease threads that dominate these boards, that is what the people feed on those threads.  Dry foods.

Dry foods will not get fish into breeding condition except maybe some clownfish and they will spawn on cardboard as long as it has a picture of a fish on it.  Fish that are not in breeding condition are just about living and are susceptible to every disease known to man including the heartbreak of psoriasis.  I am writing a book and I have a whole chapter on this subject.

[JeffG93]

Why not dose the carbon with a dosing pump? You can set it to dose small amounts up to 24 times a day to minimize any O2 drop and allows uptake without high concentrations effecting PH if you use vinegar. Calculate your weekly amount needed place it in a container and let it do the rest.  

 

This is pretty much exactly what I do - but with more frequent, smaller doses.  Works great.

[zygote2k]

I broke down my sump after running pellets and a RDSB for 2 years. Almost 1" thick layer of tubeworms and assorted detritus. The worms bloom when they get the biofilms that come from the Biopellets. I notice sponges of all sorts also thrive with the use of pellets.

[matt]

Here is another well documented experience with biopellets...pages 7 and 8 have the long-ish terms observations from the user:

Http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f6/biopellets-myth-busters-185835.html

[Big Country]

Rob, What brand of biopellets are you using?