Advice on Bio-Pellet Reactor and Calcium Reactor Please!

[OcalaReefGirl]

Hello! I love WAMAS because the people are amazing and the knowledge is accessible. I really appreciate the time in everyone answering my questions over the last year!

 

I own a large scale coral propagation business (I wish!). I am currently selling frags to wholesalers in Tampa and Miami and I am wanting to expand and sell directly to fish stores. I have a main SPS tank that is 700 gallons. I am currently dosing two part, I have a skimmer, a 200 gallon sump/ refugium and that's all. I have been doubling my production of frags lately as I gear up to sell to fish stores. I have been thinking it would help to get...

 

Calcium Reactor: I have never owned one, but they sound amazing and I can't believe I don't have one! Does anyone have any thoughts feedback? Pros or cons I should be aware of? Sounds like a very easy system (after it is calibrated) and a lot cheaper. Any brands to get or avoid?

 

Bio-pellet reactor: Since I will be (hopefully) selling frags directly to fish stores I want the frag plugs to look perfect. I don't have much algae, but some times I will have a few strands of hair algae or coralline algae growing on the plugs. I would like to eliminate it completely. Pros or cons on the bio-pellets. Any thoughts would be GREATLY appreciated!

 

Does anyone use Red Sea Part A & B? I have been reading about Amino acids being supplemented and this two part sounds amazing, but it is a huge financial commitment based on my tank sizes to just "give it a go". Anyone actually use it or something like it, like Fuel. Thank you!

[Origami]

Calcium reactors can be set and forget, running easily for months if not a year or more before needing new media or a new CO2 cylinder. They cost a lot to initially set up but the operating cost is low. If you kill a few corals along the way, you can bleach and dry the skeletons and then toss them in the reactor later on in the ultimate take on recycling. The upside of a calcium reactor is that it replenishes not only calcium and alkalinity, but also magnesium and other lesser ions because the device actually dissolves coral skeletons to enrich the effluent (output). The downside might be complexity and running your tank at a lower pH due to residual CO2 in the effluent.

 

In the past, price comparisons of calcium reactors and two-part systems relied upon using the cost of commercially prepared two-part. That is, the bottled and labeled stuff like ESV B-ionic. To bring the cost of two part dosing down, many people buy the chemicals from sources like Bulk Reef Supply and mix their own. Still other hard core reefers may use calcium chloride ice melt, arm and hammer baking soda, and epsom salts / magnesium chloride ice melt to dose calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium, respectively. When you mix your own like this, you can really bring the operating cost of two-part systems down considerably. There are probably instructions on the BRS site and there are certainly articles by Randy Holmes-Farley on DIY two-part, if you want to look into this option. The upside of two part: It's easy to automate by using peristaltic pumps and an aquarium controller and you get control over individual ions. The down side: You still get to mix chemicals to periodically refresh your supply of solutions.

 

Biopellets: I have a reactor running and can't say that I'm completely sold on what it does. I'm too lazy to take it off line, though. Plus, I do see that the pellets are slowly being eaten away, so I guess that it is feeding bacteria and, thus, helping to remove nitrates and phosphates. I'm convinced, though, that I can probably take it off line without huge impact to my system. Biopellets are, theoretically, a form of "carbon dosing." So, if you dose two part using peristaltic pumps, it would be easy to just meter out some vodka, vinegar, or sugar (glucose or dextrose) or a mix to do essentially the same thing.

[OcalaReefGirl]

You know, I never though about using my doser to vodka dose! Huh, great idea!

[zygote2k]

calcium reactors can be set and forget but you should check them weekly to ensure proper drip rate and clean the probes. when ca/rx have issues, it can wipe out everything.

 

2 part is so much safer and very hard to make a mistake with- very simple too.

 

Biopellets work great at reducing or eliminating nitrates and to some extent phosphates. It takes many months to get the pellets fully seeded but when they are, N and P disappear. YOu want coralline algae to grow though and you should take all of your dry frag plugs and throw them in the tank in hopes that coralline will encrust them which allows for better adhesion of sps frags. Pellets are plug and play, whereas Vodka, sugar, vinegar dosing is complex and can lead to disaster if dosed in wrong amounts.

 

If you're doing large scale production, try to eliminate time consuming processes and keep things as simple as possible.

[ctenophore]

I would not, and have not, ever run a heavy sps tank without a calcium reactor.  I've done two part (and currently use it on a softy/lps nano) and IMO it's not for very high demand applications.  If you are a coral growing professional, make the time investment into learning about calcium reactors and the concept of balanced Ca/carbonate ion replacement.  It is worthwhile, I promise.  The low pH issue is unimportant IME, unless it gets down into the 7.7 or below range, which is tough to do.  if so, balance that with kalk in the top-off water.

 

Biopellets may or may not be useful depending on your input nutrient load.  How many fish, how much food, etc.  I'd stay away from liquid carbon dosing as Rob said, too easy to cause major problems.

 

Put your frag plugs in a low light, very high flow area, and they'll get coralline pretty quickly.  Lots of tangs to combat any green algae on the plugs.

[TrueTricia]

Calcium reactors can be set and forget, running easily for months if not a year or more before needing new media or a new CO2 cylinder. They cost a lot to initially set up but the operating cost is low. If you kill a few corals along the way, you can bleach and dry the skeletons and then toss them in the reactor later on in the ultimate take on recycling. The upside of a calcium reactor is that it replenishes not only calcium and alkalinity, but also magnesium and other lesser ions because the device actually dissolves coral skeletons to enrich the effluent (output). The downside might be complexity and running your tank at a lower pH due to residual CO2 in the effluent.

 

In the past, price comparisons of calcium reactors and two-part systems relied upon using the cost of commercially prepared two-part. That is, the bottled and labeled stuff like ESV B-ionic. To bring the cost of two part dosing down, many people buy the chemicals from sources like Bulk Reef Supply and mix their own. Still other hard core reefers may use calcium chloride ice melt, arm and hammer baking soda, and epsom salts / magnesium chloride ice melt to dose calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium, respectively. When you mix your own like this, you can really bring the operating cost of two-part systems down considerably. There are probably instructions on the BRS site and there are certainly articles by Randy Holmes-Farley on DIY two-part, if you want to look into this option. The upside of two part: It's easy to automate by using peristaltic pumps and an aquarium controller and you get control over individual ions. The down side: You still get to mix chemicals to periodically refresh your supply of solutions.

 

Biopellets: I have a reactor running and can't say that I'm completely sold on what it does. I'm too lazy to take it off line, though. Plus, I do see that the pellets are slowly being eaten away, so I guess that it is feeding bacteria and, thus, helping to remove nitrates and phosphates. I'm convinced, though, that I can probably take it off line without huge impact to my system. Biopellets are, theoretically, a form of "carbon dosing." So, if you dose two part using peristaltic pumps, it would be easy to just meter out some vodka, vinegar, or sugar (glucose or dextrose) or a mix to do essentially the same thing.

Tom, what brand of pellets do you use?

[Origami]

It's been a long time since I put them in, but they were a bagged kind that Avast used to sell. They don't sell the same ones anymore. Maybe it was ATB Biopellets? (I googled some images and the packaging looked familiar.) Keep in mind that generically, biopellets are a mass-produced biodegradeable plastic. There are several kinds of plastics that have been played with over the years. PLA (poly lactic acid)(not common), PHA (polyhydroxyalkanoate), PHB (polyhydroxybutyric acid) & PCL (polycaprolactone). This is one area of the hobby that hobbyists began driving a few years back by experimenting with an alternative to liquid carbon dosing (vodka, vinegar, sugar, etc.). The conditions under which they degrade, though, can be pretty substantial - not necessarily the same as what they'll experience in a biopellet reactor. For example, I ran PLA in a reactor for well over six months and did not see any degradation in pellet volume. To me, that indicated that it was pretty certain that it was not degrading - certainly not being consumed by bacteria - under normal aquarium conditions. That pretty much leaves PHA and PCL as the most common pellet types that are out there. Keep in mind that pelleted plastic is a very common format for component manufacturers to use in their extruding and molding machines, so it seems unlikely to me that many sources are "customizing" the product for the rather small volume demand that this hobby probably creates. 

 

My use of them is not an endorsement of the technology. Just something that I decided to look into.

 

Back when this stuff was just starting to become a part of a wider discussion, we became part of that discussion. In fact, if you go to this thread on RC, you'll see that our discussion here was cited as a reference in the first post as a "very good read." These were both back in 2010. Stuff may have changed. So much in this hobby has a lifecycle "arc" where something gets noticed, generates interest and experimentation, peaks with mass acceptance, then fades as the next thing in line replaces it. Sometimes it's progress - sometimes it's not. 

[Fishie]

I used vodka /vinegar and it seemed to have an impact very quickly on algae BUT I also got a bacterial bloom (white stringy stuff everywhere) about a month into it and some places say it was to be expected...but I got scared and quit liquid carbon dosing

I have since switched to biopellets...(leave and forget once tweaked) but so far (2 months in) it has no where close to the impact that liquid dosing had...I am still documenting it and the jury is still out on biopellets

I have seen some positive signs in the last week..but still too early to confirm

 

cannot comment on ca reactor cause I use 2 part and like it....

Edited October 31, 2014 by Fishie

[TrueTricia]

What kind of reactors are you guys using and pumps? I've got a TLF 150 and need a new pump eventually once I run out of my current media and switch to biopellets. I don't think my pump is going to tumble anything.

[Fishie]

I've been using a hydra aquatics fr45...i also removed the sponge since it would clog over time.

it is getting flow from my return pump and the output goes directly to my skimmer