Achieving Better Water Quality

[YHSublime]

What is your choice, and why? What do you run, and why? What gives you the most success, and which can't you live without? 

[Paul'sReef]

None of the above - a strong skimmer and properly sized UV

[smallreef]

I use GFO...chemipure elite to be specific...

But I am not consistent on doing water changes which is why I need to use it :x

[DuffyGeos]

I think it depends on what issues you are having. I don't think you want your water too clean or it effects the corals.  Set it up so that you can add 2 reactors later, and maybe run some carbon after you set it up. I don't want to run any more then I have to, but I want to be ready to do what I need to do if I have an issue.

[taiscici]

Big skimmer and quality live rocks.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Huly]

Pez is getting ready to try the new Chemi Pure Blue we got from MACNA.  I will let you know how it goes

[howaboutme]

What's wrong w/ your water quality? Seems like you grow corals easily.

 

What are you trying to do? All of those listed do different things.

[sen5241b]

I use cheato for nutrient export, occasional GFO pads, floss and carbon. That's it. No skimmer, no phosphate reactor and no pellets. My system keeps the water very clean but the fewer methods of nutrient export you use the greater the risk if one of those methods fails.

Edited September 5, 2014 by sen5241b

[ridetheducati]

The items listed in the poll are tools to fix or manage a specific problem.

 

For overall general health, basic blocking and tackling:

 

1.  Quality live rock (the cornerstone)

2.  Aggressive export mechanism(s) such as skimmer, ATS, or refugium

3.  Strong lighting for photosynthetic animals

4.  Periodic water changes to replenish minor elements

5.  Maintain a reasonable fish and coral bio-load 

[YHSublime]

This was a poll, but I see now that from the phone it doesn't show.

 

For those curious, I'm interested in lowering phosphates, and ideally continuing with my regular habits. I water change every 2 weeks, feed 1x per day, and still have cyano. My numbers are steady, but I've had my fair share of rtn lately, mostly 2" and under frags. I expect that's a lighting issue, but want to explore options for a new tank. I have x2 mr5 avast media reactors I plan to tie into the next system.

[ridetheducati]

cyano outcompetes green algae for P at low N:P ratios, 

green algae outcompetes cyano for P at high N:P ratios, and 

diatoms outcompete green algae for P at high Si:P ratios.

 

Do you have green hair algae?  What are the nitrate and phosphate levels?  

[lutz123]

I am sure you have considered this, but what about the possibility that your live rock/sand is leaching phosphates? I have three different tanks with essentially the same maintenance schedule (different lighting though, but none are strong except my pico). I have one tank I get cyano in. It is the one with the best flow. It is also the only tank I used "reel reef" purple rock. Is that the difference? Who knows. But my other two have figi rock from Marine Scene. Neither of those ever had an issue - never even got a diatom bloom. No cyano ever. My solana 34 gallon isn't even running a powerhead and I have never had algae - even on the glass it is very rare.

 

I have never tried sps so that adds a degree of complication. Also though, maybe consider approaching it from a very basic level. Did you see the coral care article I posted last week? It is very in depth about how corals get their energy and use the minerals in their environment. There are a number of other helpful articles there as well. And remember that what you are measuring is only what is not being consumed, right? Everyone has different methods that work, because there is no controlled environment. Don't chase the numbers unless you are seeing an actual problem. And I agree that keeping it simple makes for simpler troubleshooting in the future.

 

Sorry if something doesn't make sense. I am typing on my phone.

[YHSublime]

 

cyano outcompetes green algae for P at low N:P ratios, 

green algae outcompetes cyano for P at high N:P ratios, and 

diatoms outcompete green algae for P at high Si:P ratios.

 

Do you have green hair algae?  What are the nitrate and phosphate levels?  

 

No green hair algae, I also have 3 tangs, and did have a hungry hungry foxface which I got rid of.

 

Phosphate: 0.5ppm

Nitrate: 0 ppm

[DuffyGeos]

No green hair algae, I also have 3 tangs, and did have a hungry hungry foxface which I got rid of.

 

Phosphate: 0.5ppm

Nitrate: 0 ppm

I just had a vision of the TV commercial for Hungry Hungry Hippo board game....got a little laugh

[ridetheducati]

No green hair algae, I also have 3 tangs, and did have a hungry hungry foxface which I got rid of.

 

Phosphate: 0.5ppm

Nitrate: 0 ppm

 

cyano outcompetes green algae for P at low N:P ratios

[YHSublime]

cyano outcompetes green algae for P at low N:P ratios

 

So would you recommend GFO?

 

I am sure you have considered this, but what about the possibility that your live rock/sand is leaching phosphates?

 

Doubt it was sand and rock. All the rock I used was dry and seeded. I also did not have a problem in my old tank, all of my rock came from there.

 

I think a lot of waste is getting trapped around the rocks, the 180 should allow for a less cramped depth and more open flow. I am going to go with lower rockwork and possibly barebottom this go around.

[ridetheducati]

As mentioned above, the live rock and sand could be leaching PO4.  When you start over, use Lanthanum Chloride to clean the rocks and start with a new sandbed. 

[ridetheducati]

So would you recommend GFO?

 

 

Doubt it was sand and rock. All the rock I used was dry and seeded. I also did not have a problem in my old tank, all of my rock came from there.

 

I think a lot of waste is getting trapped around the rocks, the 180 should allow for a less cramped depth and more open flow. I am going to go with lower rockwork and possibly barebottom this go around.

 

If I had a cyano problem...

 

1.  Manual removal - cyano stores nutrients for later use, physical removal will export a lot of nutrients.

2.  Remove as much nutrient and stored nutrients as possible - lower phosphates and nitrates using GFO and organic carbon dosing respectively

3.  Siphon/clean sandbed - siphon a section of the sandbed each week with a gravel cleaner

4.  Skim, Skim, Skim -  Unless you have neck cleaner, clean the skimmer twice a week

5.  Increase pH (if possible) - A higher pH (8.4) will help eradicate nuisance algae.  Carbon dioxide can build in the home and suppress the tank pH.

6.  Maintain lower nutrients and good husbandry - keep stable water parameters and the corals will thank you.

 

Know your path and follow it.

 

[DuffyGeos]

As mentioned above, the live rock and sand could be leaching PO4.  When you start over, use Lanthanum Chloride to clean the rocks and start with a new sandbed.

Tony - So along those lines, I am getting ready to "cook" all my rock. I want it deader then a door nail so I don't have to do deal with anything getting in the new system.

 

I was thinking of starting with muriatic acid bath, then a bleach bath.

 

I am not familiar with Lanthanum Chloride? Is it readily available? Which order should I do them, if I should do them all?

[TrueTricia]

If I had a cyano problem...

 

1.  Manual removal - cyano stores nutrients for later use, physical removal will export a lot of nutrients.

2.  Remove as much nutrient and stored nutrients as possible - lower phosphates and nitrates using GFO and organic carbon dosing respectively

3.  Siphon/clean sandbed - siphon a section of the sandbed each week with a gravel cleaner

4.  Skim, Skim, Skim -  Unless you have neck cleaner, clean the skimmer twice a week

5.  Increase pH (if possible) - A higher pH (8.4) will help eradicate nuisance algae.  Carbon dioxide can build in the home and suppress the tank pH.

6.  Maintain lower nutrients and good husbandry - keep stable water parameters and the corals will thank you.

 

Know your path and follow it.

 

 

I definitely need to clean my sandbed more too.  I do weekly water changes, but I haven't cleaned my sandbed in awhile.  Which may be part of the reason I HAVE to do the weekly water changes. 

 

I'm also assuming that the accumulated carbon dioxide suppressing the pH is why opening a window causes your pH to raise?  Does that scare anyone else?  Carbon dioxide reaching levels that suppress pH and I'm breathing that in? 

 

And last question... with my skimmer, I'm still not finding the "sweet spot."  After water changes, it tends to run high, so I push the level down.  Then suddenly it's barely skimming at all.  How did you guys find your sweet spot with your skimmer, does it ever change, and why/when?

[TrueTricia]

What is your choice, and why? What do you run, and why? What gives you the most success, and which can't you live without? 

 

What about those new carbon/gfo pellets I saw advertised on RC or AquaNerd?  Crap, I can't find their name, but I'll try to pull them up.  All-in-One Biopellets from Aquarium Specialty.  http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/reef-interests-all-in-one-biopellets  AquaNerd gave it good reviews, and I swear someone on R2R or RC did too. 

[ridetheducati]

Tony - So along those lines, I am getting ready to "cook" all my rock. I want it deader then a door nail so I don't have to do deal with anything getting in the new system.

 

I was thinking of starting with muriatic acid bath, then a bleach bath.

 

I am not familiar with Lanthanum Chloride? Is it readily available? Which order should I do them, if I should do them all?

 

I would power wash using water no soap, acid bath, and then soak in a solution of baking soda.  Bleach not needed.

 

Lanthanum Chloride aka SeaKlear Phosphate Remover is readily available at local swimming pool stores and Amazon ($25).  It is excellent for cleaning phosphate laden live rock AND reefs.  I strongly recommend researching Lanthanum Chloride prior to using it.  Why you may ask.  Because it is very potent and does what it supposed to do extremely rapidly.  Overdose this stuff and puff, massive RTN event or stressed fish.  Give me a call I can give you details.

[ridetheducati]

I'm also assuming that the accumulated carbon dioxide suppressing the pH is why opening a window causes your pH to raise?  Does that scare anyone else?  Carbon dioxide reaching levels that suppress pH and I'm breathing that in? 

 

 

Have you ever noticed the pH changing on your tank when you have family events or multiple people standing around the tank and conversing?  You will be surprised.  

 

Opening the window allows fresh air exchange to occur and the tank benefits, pH rises.

[DuffyGeos]

I would power wash using water no soap, acid bath, and then soak in a solution of baking soda.  Bleach not needed.

 

Lanthanum Chloride aka SeaKlear Phosphate Remover is readily available at local swimming pool stores and Amazon ($25).  It is excellent for cleaning phosphate laden live rock AND reefs.  I strongly recommend researching Lanthanum Chloride prior to using it.  Why you may ask.  Because it is very potent and does what it supposed to do extremely rapidly.  Overdose this stuff and puff, massive RTN event or stressed fish.  Give me a call I can give you details.

So Lanthanum Chloride is used IN THE TANK when the tank is full and has a live reef and fish?

[ridetheducati]

So Lanthanum Chloride is used IN THE TANK when the tank is full and has a live reef and fish?

 

Yes.