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Can someone explain dosing mechanics to me?


TrueTricia

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Ok.  So now that I'm buying a few SPS frags and getting ready for FFE, I want to start learning about dosing in my aquarium.  I've read the Reefkeeping articles and understand (sort of) the chemistry behind dosing, but it's the practical application combined with the equipment that's another story.  Let me walk through my understanding of the process, and then I'll put out a bunch of questions.  Feel free to correct either.

 

Step 1: Baseline

The first step is establishing a baseline of your alkalinity, calcium, pH, and magnesium levels in the aquarium.  With calcium and alkalinity, you could be in 1 of 4 scenarios: both are too high, both are too low, calcium is too high, or alk is too high relative to calcium.  There's a great article http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/11/chemistry that discusses how to deal with each of these issues.  Testing is key to establish current parameters and when objective parameters are met.  Corrections are made using various additives like calcium chloride and sodium bicarbonate or balanced 2-part dosing supplements and kalkwasser.  Supersaturation will lead to calcium carbonate precipitation.  Sufficient amounts of magnesium will help to prevent calcium carbonate precipitation from forming by blocking the ions from bonding (or something close to that).  pH swings will also contribute to the precipitation buildup. 

 

Step 2: Maintainance

Once the proper baseline is achieved, maintaining the optimum levels (OL) also will require additives.  Corals will constantly deplete levels if left alone.  If the levels drop below the OL (assuming evenly), then not enouvh calcium carbonate will be available for coral calcification, possibly leading to coral death.  If the levels go slightly above the OL (assuming evenly), then they will return to normal on their own with time.  Unbalanced dosing at this point could lead to swings outside of the OL back into the other 2 scenarios and require correction.  So maintaining the tank requires balanced dosing to maintain calcium and alk levels as corals utilize the calcium carbonate for their skeletons.  Maintaining requires constant testing and monitoring.

 

Step 3: Corrections

Corrections are for when deviations from the OL occur.  This could be from overdosing, underdosing, etc.  Adjustments will need to be made to return to the OL and the Maintainance phase. 

 

 

How to Maintain the OL:

 

1. Dose by hand: dosing either a balanced or unbalanced supplement by hand.

2. Dose by pump: dosing occurs through an auotmated system

3. Dosy by reactor: dosing occurs through a kalk reactor?

 

Questions:

1. Most posts I see are with people dosing a 2-part solution using a pump.  Can you dose kalk through a pump (thereby eliminating the need for 2 pumps)?

2. Should you use a pump if you don't have a controller system set up to monitor pH (and thus swings in alkalinity and carbonate levels)?  Or would using a pump in the absence of an automated monitoring system by courting disaster?  (This is assuming that dosing by hand makes you test more).

3.  What are reasons to use a 2-part dosing system over kalk? 

4. What is the average footprint needed to set up a dosing system?  Sure the pumps are small, but what about the solutions they are connected to? 

5. Do people pre-mix kalkwasser and then store it in liquid form for dosing throughout the week?

6. Do the dry goods (calcium chloride, sodium bicarb, & kalk) ever expire provided that they are left in their dry form?

7. Are pH probes the only probes people use to monitor these levels?

8. Other knowledge you would like to impart on me! 

 

Thanks!!!!

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If you're just starting, I vote drip kalk. Lots of videos and explanations on how to dose kalk like this. I prefer it over adding it to ATO, since that is too inconsistent. Not that it matters since you don't even have that option :)

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Here's my recent journey:

 

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/65530-opinions-on-my-water-chemistry/?hl=chemistry

 

Isaac will chime in with his link as he went through it about the same time.

 

It sounds like you're worrying about ph too much. The only part about ph that can matter at this point is if you dose alk all in 1 shot. Then you need to know what brings it down versus what brings it up as you don't want that fluctuation to happen fast. If you dose throughout the day/night, you don't have any worries. Worry about the other 3 but more specifically Alk.

 

By the way, you may not need to dose to maintain if you're just starting out. I didn't dose until my tank was well over 1 yr old, same w/ Isaac I believe..Not that you should do that since our Alk went down a bit too far for anyone to feel comfortable with.

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If you're just starting, I vote drip kalk. Lots of videos and explanations on how to dose kalk like this. I prefer it over adding it to ATO, since that is too inconsistent. Not that it matters since you don't even have that option :)

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/skip/agu/kalkdripper.htm

 

I found this one.  Question, when it says to add 1 tsp per gallon, is that per gallon of your aquarium or the per gallon of the container?  I'm assuming the aquarium since that water bottle is pretty small, but I just want to make sure.....

 

Here's my recent journey:

 

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/65530-opinions-on-my-water-chemistry/?hl=chemistry

 

Isaac will chime in with his link as he went through it about the same time.

 

It sounds like you're worrying about ph too much. The only part about ph that can matter at this point is if you dose alk all in 1 shot. Then you need to know what brings it down versus what brings it up as you don't want that fluctuation to happen fast. If you dose throughout the day/night, you don't have any worries. Worry about the other 3 but more specifically Alk.

 

By the way, you may not need to dose to maintain if you're just starting out. I didn't dose until my tank was well over 1 yr old, same w/ Isaac I believe..Not that you should do that since our Alk went down a bit too far for anyone to feel comfortable with.

 

My alkaline test should be in today.  My calcium levels were at 390, so I'm happy with that.  I'll check out the link tonight!  Thank you!  My pH has been steady at 7.8.  I didn't figure on trying to bring it up to 8.0 until I find out where my alk levels are. 

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Lot of good questions there!

 

Question 1--you can dose 2 part either by measuring cup or dosing pump. I started by hand and then moved to a dosing pump. Either is fine IMO, just depends on your patience level.

 

Question 2--I used a dosing pump prior to my Apex and am currently using it in conjunction with. I was never concerned with the pump failing in a constant on position without my Apex. Perhaps I should have been...but I wasn't.

 

Question 3--currently I use a balanced 2-part, however lots of people use them together. With just Kalk, there may come a time when your calcium carbonate demand will exceed the amount of kalk you are able to dose--depending on how you dose. Ie kalk reactor, drip, ATO...

 

Question 4--footprint. Here's a pic of my dosing setup. Pretty basic compared to others.

 

amy2are3.jpg

 

The head unit is 9"x5 1/4". The bottles are about 9" tall, but that varies.

 

Question 5-- I used to dose kalk through my ATO. 5 gallons lasted me about a week, however I don't believe kalk to be extremely stable for extended time periods.

 

Question 6-- couldn't answer. I use a balanced 2-part that comes in liquid form.

 

Question 7--I am not aware of an affordable method of monitoring Alk and Ca, thus I test regularly--primarily Alk.

 

Question 8-- I'm just a dumb guy trying to grow coral. Check out the Reef Threads podcast on iTunes--episode 180. It's an hour long conversation with Craig Bingman about 2-part, balanced 2-part, Ca reactors and kalk. Worth a listen!

 

Hope this helps. I'm a bit of a hike from the majority of members in this club, but if you are ever in the Hagerstown, Md area, feel free to swing by and take a look at how it all goes together. That said, there are probably a lot more people closer to wherever it is you are located... :)

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Isaac will chime in with his link as he went through it about the same time.

 

Here.

 

I really doubt you need to dose yet. Do your diligence in learning how it all works, but I had my dosing pumps in my closet for 4 months until I decided I needed them. I had 30-40 frags of SPS in my tank, and some large montis, and I didn't see a need until recently. Even now, I'm only dosing 23ml of each solution (for calcium and alkalinity) and my numbers are staying pretty solid. 23ml is nothing. You can dose by hand, but constancy is harder to hit, so usually dosing pumps are suggested.

 

What I would suggest you do first is make sure that you have good test kits for calcium and alkalinity first. Test your alk every day for a week, and see what your consumption is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it is, color me surprised.

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Your research, Tricia, has given you a good baseline of understanding.

 

Realize that "optimum levels" vary by aquarist and by tank. There's actually a wide range of acceptability for the "big three" which are calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. Once you pick where you want your tank to operate, it comes down to stability of these parameters and others (such as salinity, temperature, and pH). Stability is one key reason that automation is employed so much in this hobby - that and convenience that makes the hobby more enjoyable, that is.

 

For small tanks that are just starting out, regular water changes can meet a lot of demand. As corals become more established, or more correctly, as your calcifying organisms become greater consumers of various ions, it may become more economical to consider supplementation alternatives such as kalkwasser, two-part, or a calcium reactor. Each alternative has it's advantages and disadvantages.

 

As for your questions:

 

1) Kalk is most often dosed as part of an auto-top off system. The substance that is dosed is fresh top off water that is saturated with calcium hydroxide. (Don't run your tank salt water through your kalk reactor. It depletes the water of key ions - e.g. magnesium.) Given the low solubility of calcium hydroxide, kalk rarely can cover all of the consumption needs of a well-developed, heavily populated tank full of hard corals. However, it does very well to raise the pH of your tank to desirable levels. Kalk is a "balanced additive" - that is, it provides calcium and alkalinity in a ratio very, very close to their consumption. 

 

2) Yes, you can use a (kalk) pump without an aquarium controller. You just make it part of your ATO. Thus, all water that evaporates out of the tank is replaced with kalkwasser. That's a very common configuration.

 

3) Two-part is an asymmetric dosing strategy where you independently control how much of specific target ions that you're looking for. The key ions are calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. It's actually three-part in its most common practice. Unfortunately, you don't dose these ions alone. When dosing calcium, the most common compound used in the solution is calcium chloride. that means that you get two chlorine ions (extra) for ever desired calcium ion. For alk, it's sodium bicarbonate / carbonate, which adds an unneeded sodium ion. And finally, for magnesium, the mix adds extra chloride and sulfate most times. These "extra" ions are heavily diluted by the large amount of sodium, chloride, and sulfate that are already in standard seawater. Thus, while a long-term ionic imbalance is possible, regular water changes that accompany good husbandry make this less likely. Automated two-part dosing has a higher entry cost than the most simple kalkwasser dosing system which merely mixes kalk powder into your ATO reservoir. Kalk overdoses are one risk of dosing kalk that needs to be considered. Finally, kalk does nothing for magnesium consumption. This would need to be supplemented some other way.

 

4) The average footprint is 25 square inches. Seriously, it really depends. If you already have an ATO in place, dosing kalkwasser need not add anything additional except for you to add kalk powder to your fresh water reservoir. If you use a reactor, then about 4 to 6 inches square might be required. For 2-part, you probably need more space for the reservoirs for each of the solutions, plus a little space in the cabinet for the dosing pumps. For a calcium reactor, it depends upon the size, but you're probably talking around 100 square inches or so, not counting the CO2 tank.

 

5) Kalkwasser is only slightly soluble. About a teaspoon to 2 teaspoons will dissolve in a gallon of water. You don't want to dose suspended solids, but want to let the solids settle and dose the clear solution (effluent) into the tank. Some people (e.g. Randy Holmes-Farley), puts kalk powder directly into his ATO reservoir (to the tune of about 2 tsp per gallon and gives it a quick stir before letting it settle out. He lets his ATO take care of the rest. 

 

6) If kept completely dry and sealed, the chemicals will last nearly forever.

 

7) pH probes are cheap, but don't monitor any of these ions directly. But, they can be secondary indicators of something gone wrong - e.g. kalk overdose, or kalk reactor empty.

 

8) Ask questions and research... looks like you have a good start already.

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My alkaline test should be in today.  My calcium levels were at 390, so I'm happy with that.  I'll check out the link tonight!  Thank you!  My pH has been steady at 7.8.  I didn't figure on trying to bring it up to 8.0 until I find out where my alk levels are. 

 

PH fluctuates based on your light schedule so unless you're checking at the same time each time, the numbers will not make sense. See this:

 

ph-graph.png

 

You risk chasing a phantom number unless you understand how it works. And even so, I wouldn't worry about ph unless they are out of the normal high and low range. But in order to see that, you should monitor it continuously or more often like w/ a controller.

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Lot of good questions there!

 

Question 1--you can dose 2 part either by measuring cup or dosing pump. I started by hand and then moved to a dosing pump. Either is fine IMO, just depends on your patience level.

 

Question 2--I used a dosing pump prior to my Apex and am currently using it in conjunction with. I was never concerned with the pump failing in a constant on position without my Apex. Perhaps I should have been...but I wasn't.

 

Question 3--currently I use a balanced 2-part, however lots of people use them together. With just Kalk, there may come a time when your calcium carbonate demand will exceed the amount of kalk you are able to dose--depending on how you dose. Ie kalk reactor, drip, ATO...

 

Question 4--footprint. Here's a pic of my dosing setup. Pretty basic compared to others.

 

amy2are3.jpg

 

The head unit is 9"x5 1/4". The bottles are about 9" tall, but that varies.

 

Question 5-- I used to dose kalk through my ATO. 5 gallons lasted me about a week, however I don't believe kalk to be extremely stable for extended time periods.

 

Question 6-- couldn't answer. I use a balanced 2-part that comes in liquid form.

 

Question 7--I am not aware of an affordable method of monitoring Alk and Ca, thus I test regularly--primarily Alk.

 

Question 8-- I'm just a dumb guy trying to grow coral. Check out the Reef Threads podcast on iTunes--episode 180. It's an hour long conversation with Craig Bingman about 2-part, balanced 2-part, Ca reactors and kalk. Worth a listen!

 

Hope this helps. I'm a bit of a hike from the majority of members in this club, but if you are ever in the Hagerstown, Md area, feel free to swing by and take a look at how it all goes together. That said, there are probably a lot more people closer to wherever it is you are located... :)

 

Thank you for the picture!  I'll be moving apartments in November, and when I set up the tank, I think I want to build in an ATO and dosing pump area.  This gives me an idea of what to expect in size. 

 

 

Here.

 

I really doubt you need to dose yet. Do your diligence in learning how it all works, but I had my dosing pumps in my closet for 4 months until I decided I needed them. I had 30-40 frags of SPS in my tank, and some large montis, and I didn't see a need until recently. Even now, I'm only dosing 23ml of each solution (for calcium and alkalinity) and my numbers are staying pretty solid. 23ml is nothing. You can dose by hand, but constancy is harder to hit, so usually dosing pumps are suggested.

 

What I would suggest you do first is make sure that you have good test kits for calcium and alkalinity first. Test your alk every day for a week, and see what your consumption is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, and if it is, color me surprised.

 

My crappy alk test will be in today (API test strips), and the better test kit when I get back from a work trip.  I got those all-in-one test strips mainly so my roommate can just double check that nothing is wrong while I'm gone for work.  They are not my primary method of testing, but I figured it was good for a non-reefer to be able to do at a minimum.  She wasn't too crazy about the chemistry setup idea, lol.  I can't imagine my tank will be far off from yours, so if it took months for you, I'm sure it will be the same for me. 

 

Your research, Tricia, has given you a good baseline of understanding.

 

Realize that "optimum levels" vary by aquarist and by tank. There's actually a wide range of acceptability for the "big three" which are calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. Once you pick where you want your tank to operate, it comes down to stability of these parameters and others (such as salinity, temperature, and pH). Stability is one key reason that automation is employed so much in this hobby - that and convenience that makes the hobby more enjoyable, that is.

 

For small tanks that are just starting out, regular water changes can meet a lot of demand. As corals become more established, or more correctly, as your calcifying organisms become greater consumers of various ions, it may become more economical to consider supplementation alternatives such as kalkwasser, two-part, or a calcium reactor. Each alternative has it's advantages and disadvantages.

 

As for your questions:

 

1) Kalk is most often dosed as part of an auto-top off system. The substance that is dosed is fresh top off water that is saturated with calcium hydroxide. (Don't run your tank salt water through your kalk reactor. It depletes the water of key ions - e.g. magnesium.) Given the low solubility of calcium hydroxide, kalk rarely can cover all of the consumption needs of a well-developed, heavily populated tank full of hard corals. However, it does very well to raise the pH of your tank to desirable levels. Kalk is a "balanced additive" - that is, it provides calcium and alkalinity in a ratio very, very close to their consumption. 

 

2) Yes, you can use a (kalk) pump without an aquarium controller. You just make it part of your ATO. Thus, all water that evaporates out of the tank is replaced with kalkwasser. That's a very common configuration.

 

3) Two-part is an asymmetric dosing strategy where you independently control how much of specific target ions that you're looking for. The key ions are calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. It's actually three-part in its most common practice. Unfortunately, you don't dose these ions alone. When dosing calcium, the most common compound used in the solution is calcium chloride. that means that you get two chlorine ions (extra) for ever desired calcium ion. For alk, it's sodium bicarbonate / carbonate, which adds an unneeded sodium ion. And finally, for magnesium, the mix adds extra chloride and sulfate most times. These "extra" ions are heavily diluted by the large amount of sodium, chloride, and sulfate that are already in standard seawater. Thus, while a long-term ionic imbalance is possible, regular water changes that accompany good husbandry make this less likely. Automated two-part dosing has a higher entry cost than the most simple kalkwasser dosing system which merely mixes kalk powder into your ATO reservoir. Kalk overdoses are one risk of dosing kalk that needs to be considered. Finally, kalk does nothing for magnesium consumption. This would need to be supplemented some other way.

 

4) The average footprint is 25 square inches. Seriously, it really depends. If you already have an ATO in place, dosing kalkwasser need not add anything additional except for you to add kalk powder to your fresh water reservoir. If you use a reactor, then about 4 to 6 inches square might be required. For 2-part, you probably need more space for the reservoirs for each of the solutions, plus a little space in the cabinet for the dosing pumps. For a calcium reactor, it depends upon the size, but you're probably talking around 100 square inches or so, not counting the CO2 tank.

 

5) Kalkwasser is only slightly soluble. About a teaspoon to 2 teaspoons will dissolve in a gallon of water. You don't want to dose suspended solids, but want to let the solids settle and dose the clear solution (effluent) into the tank. Some people (e.g. Randy Holmes-Farley), puts kalk powder directly into his ATO reservoir (to the tune of about 2 tsp per gallon and gives it a quick stir before letting it settle out. He lets his ATO take care of the rest. 

 

6) If kept completely dry and sealed, the chemicals will last nearly forever.

 

7) pH probes are cheap, but don't monitor any of these ions directly. But, they can be secondary indicators of something gone wrong - e.g. kalk overdose, or kalk reactor empty.

 

8) Ask questions and research... looks like you have a good start already.

 

Well, that was my summation of my research anyways.  The biggest problem I've seen with some of the articles is that it doesn't break it down into simple steps.  I get it; it's complicated and interrelated which makes A+B=C nonexistent.  But I liked my summation :) 

 

So I'm going to digest what everyone has written.  It's great information to consider as I move forward.  Especially the part about dosing pumps w & w/o controllers.  That makes a difference in the steps I take towards eventual automation.  Automation will be a necessity...I currently live with a non-reefer, and my boyfriend, who I'm moving in with in November, despises chemistry.  Automated processes he can do (and as an IT geek, will probably understand the equipment better than I will!).

 

THANK YOU ALL! <3 WAMAS

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BRS's take on kalk:

 

 

I disagree with ATO + kalk as being the ideal solution though. Just not consistent enough, and there is much more risk, IMO.

 

In terms of mixture, I like 1 gallon of water, 45 ml of distilled vinegar, and 2 teaspoons of kalk. Don't shake too hard, just gently mix or turn the container upside down.

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I wonder why you think it's inconsistent? Evaporation rates in a sealed up house are pretty consistent year round. At least, mine were. Given that you have a saturated solution in kalkwasser, the dosing via top-off is calibrated because kalk has a very specific solubility in water (that is somewhat temperature dependent).  I ran a tank like this for over a year.

 

 

 

 

I disagree with ATO + kalk as being the ideal solution though. Just not consistent enough, and there is much more risk, IMO.

 

In terms of mixture, I like 1 gallon of water, 45 ml of distilled vinegar, and 2 teaspoons of kalk. Don't shake too hard, just gently mix or turn the container upside down.

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Tricia, if interested in knowing more about kalkwasser and how to dose it, here's an article that I read many years ago and enjoyed. 

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Tricia, if interested in knowing more about kalkwasser and how to dose it, here's an article that I read many years ago and enjoyed. 

 

I'll read it tonight!  Thank you, Tom!  Looking forward to this next meeting!

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I should have shown you how my dosers work when you came by.

I went from io salt, to Reef crystals, to dosing.

never did Kalwasser.

 

I paid about $250 for a doser and it is programmable

I am splitting it into the maximum doses per day just to keep anything from spiking

I still need to monitor that the resulting level are where I want them to be

But I test it less and less as I get know how the corals should look.

 

I like the consistency that dosing provides

once  a month I need to refill my 1 gallon jugs

and other then that it takes care of itself.

I try to keep higher levels  CA 500, Alk 11, Mag 1300+

but everyone has a different OL

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Here's my take in case you were wondering or not-

 

Water Changes will replenish C,A, M sufficiently until corals use more than what's available. This might take years depending on what you're trying to grow.

2 part dosing is easy to do and allows you to dose one solution more than the other- unbalanced whereas Kalk provides both A&C in equal amounts. Kalk is way risky unless you know what you're doing. It has a pH of 12 and can wipe out a tank if you're careless.

When Kalk came on the market, it was revolutionary and I and many others went crazy with it. After awhile, the A&C levels become skewed  and then you had to figure out how to make one go up vs. the other.

2 part took all of these headaches away and made it easier for you to manipulate the A vs C and dose the exact amount needed to keep up with demand.  It was like going from VHO to LED.

 

Use reliable accurate test kits and record the results on a weekly basis. This will allow fine tuning of the mixture and amount delivered. If you chart these values over time, you'll be able to get a good grasp on how reef chemistry plays a part in the overall health of your tank. Use reliable test kits with small graduations of resolution. Salifert is great, reliable, and relatively inexpensive but if you want very precise test kits, use LaMotte.

 

As far as pH goes, I've stopped testing/monitoring it as it seems like one of those 'magic' values that people seem to chase. It's typically low in a modern well sealed house and higher in places with more airflow. Your salt will keep pH stable in addition to your 2 part. I have found SPS corals that grew well and were colorful in tanks that had "low" pH of 7.8 and seen the same corals grow the same in a pH of 8.3

pH fluctuates with respiration in a fish tank and this is one of the main reasons why people use refugiums- they tend to keep the pH stable throught the day if you are running RDP. I wonder if having a ph drop at night is better or worse or if stability is better or worse but no one has figured it out. One less probe to calibrate and replace yearly means that I can spend the extra $100 on something else. A liquid pH test kit is cheap and lasts years. Phenol Red is easy to find.

 

As far as dosers go, the smaller graduations/settings the better. Dosers that deliver a set amount and are run via a timer are POS and should be avoided. 2 channel medical dosers are great and cheap but use a proprietary lineset. The Bubble Magus multi channel dosers are great but more costly. Litermeter 3 is a great dosing system but can easily set you back $500+

If you're gonna dose via automation, a constant drip is best as opposed to larger amounts in smaller intervals. This way eliminates spikes in chemistry.

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I wonder why you think it's inconsistent? Evaporation rates in a sealed up house are pretty consistent year round. At least, mine were. Given that you have a saturated solution in kalkwasser, the dosing via top-off is calibrated because kalk has a very specific solubility in water (that is somewhat temperature dependent).  I ran a tank like this for over a year.

 

I get much faster evap in the winter, due to heater usage, and low relative humidity of the house. I have a 5 gallon ATO, and I annoyingly have to fill it at least once every few days during the winter, but maybe just once every 9-10 days right now in the summer.

 

Besides that, I put ATOs and heaters in the same category in terms of things likely to fail.  Plus the ATO can kick on if you scoop some water out for coral or fish additions, or work in the sump. It's one thing, to me at least, to trigger the addition of RODI, but it's another if it's a significant amount of saturated kalk solution. My 2 cents.

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Here's my take in case you were wondering or not-

 

Water Changes will replenish C,A, M sufficiently until corals use more than what's available. This might take years depending on what you're trying to grow.

2 part dosing is easy to do and allows you to dose one solution more than the other- unbalanced whereas Kalk provides both A&C in equal amounts. Kalk is way risky unless you know what you're doing. It has a pH of 12 and can wipe out a tank if you're careless.

When Kalk came on the market, it was revolutionary and I and many others went crazy with it. After awhile, the A&C levels become skewed  and then you had to figure out how to make one go up vs. the other.

2 part took all of these headaches away and made it easier for you to manipulate the A vs C and dose the exact amount needed to keep up with demand.  It was like going from VHO to LED.

 

Use reliable accurate test kits and record the results on a weekly basis. This will allow fine tuning of the mixture and amount delivered. If you chart these values over time, you'll be able to get a good grasp on how reef chemistry plays a part in the overall health of your tank. Use reliable test kits with small graduations of resolution. Salifert is great, reliable, and relatively inexpensive but if you want very precise test kits, use LaMotte.

 

As far as pH goes, I've stopped testing/monitoring it as it seems like one of those 'magic' values that people seem to chase. It's typically low in a modern well sealed house and higher in places with more airflow. Your salt will keep pH stable in addition to your 2 part. I have found SPS corals that grew well and were colorful in tanks that had "low" pH of 7.8 and seen the same corals grow the same in a pH of 8.3

pH fluctuates with respiration in a fish tank and this is one of the main reasons why people use refugiums- they tend to keep the pH stable throught the day if you are running RDP. I wonder if having a ph drop at night is better or worse or if stability is better or worse but no one has figured it out. One less probe to calibrate and replace yearly means that I can spend the extra $100 on something else. A liquid pH test kit is cheap and lasts years. Phenol Red is easy to find.

 

As far as dosers go, the smaller graduations/settings the better. Dosers that deliver a set amount and are run via a timer are POS and should be avoided. 2 channel medical dosers are great and cheap but use a proprietary lineset. The Bubble Magus multi channel dosers are great but more costly. Litermeter 3 is a great dosing system but can easily set you back $500+

If you're gonna dose via automation, a constant drip is best as opposed to larger amounts in smaller intervals. This way eliminates spikes in chemistry.

 

Rob, I ALWAYS appreciate your thoughts!  Well, I have some kalk, but my numbers are pretty stable and good, so I don't have to dose yet.  This is all great information to know!

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I get much faster evap in the winter, due to heater usage, and low relative humidity of the house. I have a 5 gallon ATO, and I annoyingly have to fill it at least once every few days during the winter, but maybe just once every 9-10 days right now in the summer.

 

Besides that, I put ATOs and heaters in the same category in terms of things likely to fail.  Plus the ATO can kick on if you scoop some water out for coral or fish additions, or work in the sump. It's one thing, to me at least, to trigger the addition of RODI, but it's another if it's a significant amount of saturated kalk solution. My 2 cents.

 

I think I also dislike the idea of the ATO and the kalk being tied.  It seems like it could be problematic. 

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You can also dose kalk from a reactor/stirrer or empty jug. This way you are dosing a constant amount of kalk and not tying it to the ATO.

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you can play with kalk if you have the following things-

1) pH meter

2) alk kit

3) Ca kit

 

mix up a 1 gallon batch and let it settle, then dose it by hand. test before and after and record the results. you can also try dosing milky kalk to see what happens. ph will spike noticeably and alk/cal will rise. Since you already have it on hand, you may as well use it. Just dose it manually.

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Just watch your pH is you're literally dosing kalkwasser by hand rather than a dripper. The pH of saturated kalkwasser is 12.54 at 25C. It provides 808 ppm of calcium and 40.8 meq/liter of alkalinity. It can very, very quickly and easily spike your pH.

 

Kalk has been used in conjunction with ATO's for at least a couple of decades. It's actually quite effective and provides some very good benefits - the sustained pH bump is one. However, like everything related to dosing, there are risks.

 

 

you can play with kalk if you have the following things-

1) pH meter

2) alk kit

3) Ca kit

 

 

Good advice if you dose ANYTHING, not just kalk. This goes for two part, the balling method, calcium reactors, etc. The rule is "Don't dose if you don't / can't test."

 

The unwritten rule for all of this is understand the risks. The biggest risk from kalk comes from unintentional overdosing. We discussed a little about this back in '09 here.

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And thats why ATO isnt the most ideal. Every kalk mishap you hear about is due to someone's ATO malfunctioning. The different evaporation rate isnt a big deal to me, but if an ATO malfuctions now your not just dealing with salinity issues but also alk and calcium spike.

 

To me thats why I chose 2 part over kalk and my recommendation would be to use a dedicated drip/pump/manual dose for kalk.

 

The ATO is fine if you know what your getting into and put other failsafes in place to prevent any mishaps. Redundancy for your redundancy is key :)

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Just watch your pH is you're literally dosing kalkwasser by hand rather than a dripper. The pH of saturated kalkwasser is 12.54 at 25C. It provides 808 ppm of calcium and 40.8 meq/liter of alkalinity. It can very, very quickly and easily spike your pH.

 

Kalk has been used in conjunction with ATO's for at least a couple of decades. It's actually quite effective and provides some very good benefits - the sustained pH bump is one. However, like everything related to dosing, there are risks.

 

 

 

I started dosing Kalk with my ATO a few months back.  I have a very small pump in my ATO to stir the top off water.  I have a 160(DT) + 40(Sump) G system.  The ATO is about 15 G.

The way I see it, so long as I don't have too saturated a mix of Kalk in my ATO, there should not be any risk of over dosing. I have always wondered how much Kalk to add to the ATO. I will be measuring the PH of my ATO when I get home. 

 

Is the 12.45 PH the max safe level ?  Would this vary with the size of the overall system ?

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The ATO is fine if you know what your getting into and put other failsafes in place to prevent any mishaps. Redundancy for your redundancy is key :)

Ah, that's so true for anything in my opinion. We ran a story on Failure as a Design Consideration a while back when we had a newsletter (and volunteers to staff it). ATO failure was actually the topic in that article. ATO failure can lead not only to kalk overdoses, but also salinity crashes. ATO's, heaters, power outages, and flooding - all need design consideration in my opinion.

 

BRS put out a handy video about the top 10 failures (their estimation). It's a nice summary of various failure modes and what we can do about mitigating some of the risk. The video lasts about 10 minutes. The list:

 

Heater Failure

Tank Overheating

ATO failure

Kalk overdose

Leaks / Floods

Skimmer Overflow

Calcium Reactor Overdose

Two-part Overdose

Controller Failure

Power Outage

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