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RODI/Saltwater Mixing Station Advice


howaboutme

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Hi all. I need some advice. I want to build a station to help simplify my maintenance. I want to use the gravity method where the RODI trash can is on top of the saltwater brute trash can. What I did not show is that I am planning on using a MAG 5 for saltwater mixing and a MAG 12 for pumping the SW from my basement to my tank, 1 flight up. I'm hoping to get some advice from you all. Here is a picture of what I am planning:

 

RODI-Framing.png

 

I pretty much based this on many others before me so this is nothing new. However, the specific materials needed are new to me. Both cans are 20G. I have a small tank so this will do. Eventually, I may get bigger cans to support a bigger tank. Here are my questions:

 

- What size pvc pipe should I use? 1/2" or 1"? Sch 40?

- In your opinion, should I use a bulkhead or a uniseal? I prefer bulkhead but would love to hear advice on this.

- If it's a bulkhead, which one's? Plumbing is new to me so can I use any bulkhead from Home Depot or Lowes or should I use the one's from BRS et all?

- Do I need a check valve after each horizontal that comes out from the cans? I see examples on WAMAS w/ it but wonder why this would even be needed?

- How does the inside of the RODI can look? Is there a 90deg short end behind the bulkhead/uniseal? If so, why? Also, would a 90deg be needed on the SW end too?

- At the outlet for the 5G bucket that I've shown, I would like to be able to connect a 1/2" ID flex tubing so I can fill my ATO container (it's mouth is too small to let the water just flow down from the pipe. Is there a fitting that goes from the PVC to a flex tube?

- What kind of ball valve can I use at the end of the 30' or so long flex tubing that goes from the MAG 12 that will be able to hold the water back while the pump is on so I can run up my steps to the tank to let the water out and then the opposite to turn it off? Can a typical TLF barbed ball valve be able to withstand the force of a MAG 12 for about 10 seconds? If not, which valve would work?

- Any need for unions? If so, why? Actually, what is a union? Is it just a threaded connection so you can re-use the pipes?

 

Thanks in advance.

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Woke up realizing that I will need unions or else how would I detach the cans to clean and rinse? I guess those will go between the ball valve and the bulkhead/uniseals.

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I'd use 1/2" or 3/4" pvc - but you could use whateve size you'd like.  Bigger diamer fittings are a bit more expensive.

 

Use bulkheads - I think this is an application where the expensive bulkheads are not necessary.

 

I don't see that check valves would be needed.

 

I wouldn't put fittings on the inside of either bulkhead - you may need an elbow on the lower one to limit splashing.

 

To go to flex tubing, use a pvc fitting with 1/2" fnpt.  Screw into that a 1/2" mnpt x 1/2" quick connect fitting.  Plug in a length of 1/2" PE tubing and end it in a 1/2" quic connect ball valve.

 

What do you mean when you say "flex tubing?"  That will affect what sort of valve is appropriate.  

 

Yes - I'd put in a union so you can break everything down to clean it.

 

Russ

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I have two questions.

 

How are you going to check the water level on your rodi? ( or top container)

 

How are you going to mix the salt in the other container if you have a pump hooked up to the pvc? Run two pumps in that container?

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I'd use 1/2" or 3/4" pvc - but you could use whateve size you'd like.  Bigger diamer fittings are a bit more expensive.

 

Use bulkheads - I think this is an application where the expensive bulkheads are not necessary.

 

I don't see that check valves would be needed.

 

I wouldn't put fittings on the inside of either bulkhead - you may need an elbow on the lower one to limit splashing.

 

To go to flex tubing, use a pvc fitting with 1/2" fnpt.  Screw into that a 1/2" mnpt x 1/2" quick connect fitting.  Plug in a length of 1/2" PE tubing and end it in a 1/2" quic connect ball valve.

 

What do you mean when you say "flex tubing?"  That will affect what sort of valve is appropriate.  

 

Yes - I'd put in a union so you can break everything down to clean it.

 

Russ

 

 

Russ..First thank you for taking time to answer my questions.

 

- I think I'll go w/ the 1/2" bulkhead because I think it'll be a better connection. A smaller bulkhead will be able to get a better fit around the curve of the trash can. A larger fitting will make it harder for it to flatten that area of the trash can. Does that concept make sense?

 

- For the possible elbow inside of the saltwater can, is it oriented up or down to prevent splashing? It wouldn't be up because that'll force a fountain like effect. I guess down would make sense so the water is directed down rather than to the side of the can if I didn't have an elbow. I think I got it.

 

- I will try to find the 1/2" pvc to 1/2" fnpt fitting as well as the 1/2" mpt to 1/2" quick connect (barbed, right?). Anyone know if they have this at home depot/lowes? Can't seem to find exactly that online.

 

- Flex tubing, I mean the vinyl tubing that's commonly used in our hobby. I will connect that to the Mag12 w/ a plastic clamp. I was wondering if something like the 2 Little Fishes barbed ball valve would be able to withstand the force of a Mag12 pump while I run up and down stairs before and after my water change?

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

I have two questions.

 

How are you going to check the water level on your rodi? ( or top container)

 

How are you going to mix the salt in the other container if you have a pump hooked up to the pvc? Run two pumps in that container?

 

- I won't know exactly where the water is for the RODI but the can won't be very high. I can just use a step stool if I ever want to know. I have an auto shut off valve installed on it right now that automatically turns the water off (as well as the waste) when the float valve is triggered. It's flawless. I usually make water overnight and the next morning, I just shut it off assuming the can is full. I don't really need to know how much water I have unless it's close to empty. For that, I can just gently try to move the can, I guess.

 

- Yes, I will have both pumps in the saltwater container. None of the pumps will be hooked up the PVC. The Mag 5 is mixing while the Mag 12 is pumping water upstairs. I did this for 2 reasons. 1) I saw Sam (L8 2 Rise) do it so I thought it was an easy way to handle the problem and 2) I wanted to buy used pumps and Reefescape had a Mag 5 while another member had a Mag 12.

 

I suppose I could have used an external and plumbed it so it recirculates (and mixes) and also pumps water upstairs. But that would have been a bit more complicated plumbing and slightly more expensive. I wanted to make this easy and cheap with very little effort. Also, to pump water upstairs, I needed a very strong pump. I didn't want to use that same pump for salt water circulation because it uses more electricity as it will be on all the time. Having 2, used and cheap pumps, solves this problem.

 

I met you at QR that Sunday, right?

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haha Didn't even remember the screen name until you said that. Yes sir you did. I did some reserch on this since you posted this because i want to refine my water station as well. I found this pic to answer my question for how to see the water level.  The clear tubing on the right would show the water level in the top container.

 

watertower_zpsac40f93f.jpg

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awesome illustration in the original post - what program did you use - sketchup?
 
here's a design that my friend used for his saltwater mixing and RODI station that you may find may make your life easier in terms of fewer pumps, efficiency, etc. if not that, then just for further design brain-storming...
 
7170151861_a30694baee_o.jpg

 

7170152133_9662935b40_o.jpg

 

7170152177_4b14de8b29_o.jpg

 

7355364750_bce415dbf4_o.jpg

 

 

"The mixing station uses one pump and can do the following:
1. Send fresh RO/DI water from the top container to the bottom container.
2. Pull water out of the bottom of the bottom container and send back to the top of the bottom container to mix saltwater.
3. Drain water from the top container into a any other container via the flex hose.
4. Ditto for the bottom container.

 

You can also see some 1/4" water lines. The blue on top is the feed from the RO/DI unit and is complete with a float valve inside the container. The yellow will be run to my sump for auto top-off."

 

 

 

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haha Didn't even remember the screen name until you said that. Yes sir you did. I did some reserch on this since you posted this because i want to refine my water station as well. I found this pic to answer my question for how to see the water level.  The clear tubing on the right would show the water level in the top container.

 

That's a good idea for a water indicator. I will think about that. But really, it's not a huge deal for me. All I need to know if the RODI can is full or not. I like it though so I may incorporate it.

 

There is a flaw on that picture though. The piping from the RODI to the SW container is at the bottom of the container. That makes no sense to me. Looks like there is a check valve but still...

 

Thanks for the picture!

 

awesome illustration in the original post - what program did you use - sketchup?

 

here's a design that my friend used for his saltwater mixing and RODI station that you may find may make your life easier in terms of fewer pumps, efficiency, etc. if not that, then just for further design brain-storming...

 

"The mixing station uses one pump and can do the following:

1. Send fresh RO/DI water from the top container to the bottom container.

2. Pull water out of the bottom of the bottom container and send back to the top of the bottom container to mix saltwater.

3. Drain water from the top container into a any other container via the flex hose.

4. Ditto for the bottom container.

 

You can also see some 1/4" water lines. The blue on top is the feed from the RO/DI unit and is complete with a float valve inside the container. The yellow will be run to my sump for auto top-off."

 

Seriously bro, those pictures are pretty awesome. It's super complicated but it's nice to see and get ideas. I was confused about #1, but now I understand. I didn't notice the piping at the top of the SW container...Thank you for these pictures.

 

By the way, the last pictures shows it very clear that fitting that Russ was talking about that goes from the PVC to the vinyl. Can I find that at HD/Lowes?

 

And yes, it's sketchup. I use it everyday for work. I did that model in about 15 minutes.....Of course..some of those items were already modeled and available on the web....

 

Thank you all!

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By the way, the last pictures shows it very clear that fitting that Russ was talking about that goes from the PVC to the vinyl. Can I find that at HD/Lowes?

sometimes. typically when the parts come in from watts or orbit to the big box stores, the LFSs will buy it all up and sell at a markup in their own locations and other times, HD/lowes just won't carry the size you need. BRS sells the barb adapter fittings in whatever size, male/female, reducer, etc that you need, though. might as well join the next GB on here and get all your plumbing, unions, ball valves, etc that way and pair up with someone and get free shipping. g'luck!

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sometimes. typically when the parts come in from watts or orbit to the big box stores, the LFSs will buy it all up and sell at a markup in their own locations and other times, HD/lowes just won't carry the size you need. BRS sells the barb adapter fittings in whatever size, male/female, reducer, etc that you need, though. might as well join the next GB on here and get all your plumbing, unions, ball valves, etc that way and pair up with someone and get free shipping. g'luck!

 

Thanks Marco. This saves me time from running up and down aisles. I'll probably get them at BRK during the social in a few weeks. I'm not in a hurry w/ this project. I haven't seen a GB for this stuff yet since I've been on WAMAS but doubt I'll need a lot since all my plumbing needs will just be for this station...for now.

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Thanks Marco. This saves me time from running up and down aisles. I'll probably get them at BRK during the social in a few weeks. I'm not in a hurry w/ this project. I haven't seen a GB for this stuff yet since I've been on WAMAS but doubt I'll need a lot since all my plumbing needs will just be for this station...for now.

i mean the BRS GB but sure thing and BRK likely has what you need too. smart thinking designing it out. you'll save material and work-time that way.

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i mean the BRS GB but sure thing and BRK likely has what you need too. smart thinking designing it out. you'll save material and work-time that way.

 

Ah BRS...Thanks for the clarification...Yeah, I'll find locally first before online.

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A few more questions for anyone can can help....

 

1) Does this valve have unions at both ends? The description doesn't say but it looks like it. Reason I ask is that I want to put unions between the brute's and the valves so I can take them apart for maintenance. If I can consolidate a valve and unions together, that would save space.

 

2) Are quick connect (all for 1/2" pipe/tubing) fittings like this better than barbed or insert ends like this? Which one is safer/stronger?

 

3) Similar question to #2, which valve works better at the end of the vinyl tubing? A quick connect (all for 1/2" pipe/tubing) like this or a barbed or insert like this? I have 2 applications for this type of valve. One is for the end of the pipe leading to the 5G bucket as seen in the image in the first post, which does not have a lot of water pressure. The 2nd application will be at the end of a long vinyl tube that will connect to my mag 12 to pump water to the tank. This application needs to hold back the pressure generated by the mag 12 until I open the valve.

 

Thanks in advance.

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1) Yes. That's a full-union ball valve with unions at both ends.

 

2) I like the quick connects for a clean look. I also find that I can get the tubing off of the quick connect sometimes easier than with a barb (which sometimes requires that I cut the hose off of the barb). However, I also use the barbed ones in some cases. When using the barbed ones, I like to make sure that I clamp the tubing to the barb using either a zip tie that's cinched down or, if in a dry area, with a tubing clamp.

 

3) I've only used a barbed fitting at the end of longer vertical runs - but I make sure to clamp them so they don't easily pull off.

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1) Yes. That's a full-union ball valve with unions at both ends.

 

2) I like the quick connects for a clean look. I also find that I can get the tubing off of the quick connect sometimes easier than with a barb (which sometimes requires that I cut the hose off of the barb). However, I also use the barbed ones in some cases. When using the barbed ones, I like to make sure that I clamp the tubing to the barb using either a zip tie that's cinched down or, if in a dry area, with a tubing clamp.

 

3) I've only used a barbed fitting at the end of longer vertical runs - but I make sure to clamp them so they don't easily pull off.

 

Thanks, Tom. I think I'll base my decision on what I can find locally. Is the consensus that BRK does carry some of these more specialized fittings use in our hobby? I'll get the basics at Lowes but I will need to get bulkheads and fittings somewhere, prefer local instead of online.

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Of those that are local to us in the western suburbs, yes, BRK carries many of the fittings that we can't find elsewhere. Not everything, but better than anybody else right now.

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Monkiboy.. Do you ever have to put a powerhead in your mixing tank or do you have enough push and pull that it's mixing good?

the above setup is a friends, not mine. he says its works very well without power heads.

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Of those that are local to us in the western suburbs, yes, BRK carries many of the fittings that we can't find elsewhere. Not everything, but better than anybody else right now.

 

Thanks!

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Another question regarding bulkheads.

 

I never realized all of the different options such as slip x slip, slip x thread, thread x thread. I assume for my purposes I can use slip x slip bulkheads since everything else would be slip x slip (at least until I get to connecting to the vinyl tube). Any reason I would need threaded of any kind? Seems overly complicated to choose threaded since I would need to get a slip x npt to connect to them, adding yet another fitting to the assembly.

 

Why would people use threaded bulkheads when connecting sump to dt? Is it easier? Or is it the way to connect to something like a locline?

 

Thanks.

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Update on plan.

 

RODI-Framing-2.png

 

I'm going to have 2 bulkheads for the bottom sw container. The 2nd one will have a vinyl tube connect from the mag 12 to the inside of the bulkhead (assume I need a fnpt or mnpt to barbed/insert fitting) and the 30' or so of tubing on the outside that will be used to fill the tank w/ nsw. This keeps the area clean as I don't need to lift open the cover to pump water out of the container nor would I have to worry about where to store the 30' of tubing while trying to keep the cover on.

 

I guess that answers my question on which bulkheads to use in whatever conditions.

 



Another question regarding bulkheads.

 

I never realized all of the different options such as slip x slip, slip x thread, thread x thread. I assume for my purposes I can use slip x slip bulkheads since everything else would be slip x slip (at least until I get to connecting to the vinyl tube). Any reason I would need threaded of any kind? Seems overly complicated to choose threaded since I would need to get a slip x npt to connect to them, adding yet another fitting to the assembly.

 

Why would people use threaded bulkheads when connecting sump to dt? Is it easier? Or is it the way to connect to something like a locline?

 

Thanks.

 

 

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This build thread has been having me pounding my head against the wall and hitting the drawing board about how I want to build a mixing station / RODI reservoir / AtO all in one. I love the idea Marco posted and it will be the brains behind my operation.. My problem is space in my utility room... I am definitely finding this challenge fun!

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This build thread has been having me pounding my head against the wall and hitting the drawing board about how I want to build a mixing station / RODI reservoir / AtO all in one. I love the idea Marco posted and it will be the brains behind my operation.. My problem is space in my utility room... I am definitely finding this challenge fun!

 

If space is a problem, use the Brutes as they are not as wide as the container's Marco's friend is using. In those photos, concentrate on only what's on the rack. You'll notice it's not a complicated setup, in my opinion. Check RC, I believe there are a bunch of threads w/ mixing station examples. A lot of them use Marco's friends concept but w/ brutes and utilizing a wood stand similar to the one I will be making shortly. The footprint will not be very big.

 

Look at this example:

 

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/53990-smorfs-90-gallon-build/?hl=smorf

 

I've been to Zach's condo and it fits perfectly in his laundry room, which is small. It can be done. You'll see he has a similar plumbing concept w/ an external pump.

 

I'm hoping to get some plumbing stuff at BRK on Sunday. If not, I'll order online. Feel free to post your drawings or ideas in this thread. I created this thread for everyone, not just me. There are always new ideas.

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